In the news

For what it's worth I think it's an important discussion to have, we shouldn't all be so dismissive. However the linked article deliberately labels those two riders as "he" several times when it's very likely they would self identify as something else for example she/her or they/them.

The main thing to bring up in response is that the categories at thundercrit are not gendered so they have done nothing wrong. There's nothing stopping any non trans, male rider from entering the same category and winning too. Perhaps there needs to be some kind of performance criteria for the categories going forward. Or an uncategorised qualifying which splits the entire field into performance categories with no focus on gender.

There's nothing stopping any non trans male rider from entering the same category and winning too. Perhaps there needs to be some kind of performance criteria for the categories going forward.

I thought that's exactly what the Thunder and Lightning categories are? Cis men can't enter Lightning.

Ah maybe you're right then. I thought it was just guidelined as one is for cis men and those who feel their performance aligns most with cis men and the other for cis women and those who feel their performance aligns most with cis women
Aka if a cis man felt he was closer matched with cis women he could enter that one (not that anyone has done this)

Official statement here
https://thundercrit.com/official-statement/

Classic case of someone, me, half reading an article on a specific race I haven't researched from a website I have never heard of and chucking it on a thread because I'm bored and accidently pedalling (lol) shite.

I actually think those sorts of events are a cool idea, if it's the stated aim to have everyone doing their thing in whatever category they feel comfortable, then fantastic.

There's still and A and B race for each category, they're mainly so you can race against your peers without a rigid cis gender structure. If someone doesn't see themselves as male we're not going to tell them they actually are for the purposes of the race.

Fair play for owning the error.

If someone doesn't see themselves as male we're not going to tell them they actually are for the purposes of the race.

Of course not. I was saying that you'd drop all gender terms completely and just have mixed races but obviously this has all been carefully considered already and I'm sure the current solution is already the one that works best.

Yeah sorry that was more of an expansion of your comment rather than just a direct reply. Fully mixed fields has been floated before and has it's own challenges.

Worth posting the rules of the event

https://thundercrit.com/race-categories/

Highlights the people who wrote that article or ones like it, are not concerned with “rules or fairness” or even “woman's sport” - it’s mainly about attacking trans and non binary people.

Have time and support for discussing “trans sport participation” with a wide range of well meaning people, but this is quite cut and dry in the sense the people using the fantiastic thundercrit events in this manner to pedal hate or stir up resentment; only want to do that, nothing more.

Excellent statements by thundercrit and competitors, it reassures me (and I hope other trans and non binary people reading!) at the authenticity and commitment of all those involved in thundercrit to make a space for all competitors, to partake in the fun of riding our silly bikes into a corner badly and getting road rash

@Stoo61 thank you for owning up to you mistake, i think you fell for what the article wanted people to fall for! Which is why this sort of stuff is so malicious. Hopefully as myself and other have pointed out it’s clear this article, the site, and the contributors, are hate pedlars.

Yeah while the description sounds innocuous, unfortunately this kind of wording is a major red flag for hate.

Reduxx is a newly-launched independent source of pro-woman, pro-child safeguarding news and commentary.

pro-child

Jesus Christ.
Where's all the anti-child news?

MGTOW?

Most Olympic athletes would do anything to win a gold medal. Would being born a man then transitioning to female to have the edge over other biological female athletes be such a stretch?

I’m not up on the trans debate so excuse my ignorance on the subject.

The vast majority of athletes will never, ever get to the Olympics, irrespective of gender.

While Thundercrit are of course welcome to do as they wish and everyone was presumably happy to race under those terms (although it's a pity the two groups they chose advantaged the same body type), in the wider social context this is a friendly reminder that not everyone agrees replacing the concept of "women" meaning people with a specific body type with "women" meaning people who have a mental feeling of femaleness without in parallel considering what this means for the first group and their existing support structures is progressive, and that silencing the voices of those in the first group, a group historically denied agency and voice in our country, and still denied both in many places today, by dismissing their objections as motivated by hate rather than lived experience is not a good look.

Wow what a rabbit hole

The guy who was tasered and jumped in the Thames died

"women" meaning people who have a mental feeling of femaleness

A trans woman is not a person with a 'mental feeling of femaleness', it's a woman who was assigned a male gender identity at birth.

You're complaining about women's objections being dismissed as motivated by hate rather than lived experience - do you have any lived experience of being trans? Because it's pretty ironic that you're coming out with this shitty definition of being trans while complaining that women's objections are being dismissed as hate rather than being based on lived experience...

Perhaps the best people to ask about what it's like to be trans are - shocker - trans people!

silencing the voices of those in the first group

Ah, that classic TERF trope!

TERFs are all over the media, daytime TV, culture... they are the establishment! Where are all these powerful trans people silencing their voices exactly?

Trans rights are human rights. Simple.

Yeah while the description sounds innocuous, unfortunately this kind of wording is a major red flag for hate.

Yep! You know it's a TERF site when JK is linking to it...
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/05/31/jk-rowling-trans-prison-trans-reduxx-edna-mahan/

dismissing their objections as motivated by hate rather than lived experience is not a good look

Assuming I'm included in this. I don't think saying websites like reduxx are full of hate is in any way the same as dismissing women's voices. It's clickbait trash designed to intentionally pull people in and rile them up.

do you have any lived experience of being trans?

Totally disagree that this is necessary. We each have lived experience of who we are and that validates us but doesn't mean that we can't also learn about other people. To empathise is to be human. To be able to speak on your own experience is also hugely important.

I know you're taking issue with a specific thing here, but it can easily be interpreted as "if you aren't trans then shut up". Which, no.

And, fwiw. I sympathise with @brokenbetty 's reluctance to voice an opinion on this. It is way too public a forum/platform for me to feel comfortable. I do think this is what women - both in the public eye and not - experience every day (whether you agree with their opinions or not), and on this forum I don't think it's really appreciated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61669233

Bear in mind a lot of western America is basically like a desert.