In the news

I disagree. I haven't seen any evidence that she was coerced or controlled into any of it.
I've done a lot of reading around this case. She seems an very entitled person who always got what they wanted. Part of this seems to be a power trip. They would expend a lot of time amd energy. to groom these young girls. It's something their money couldn't buy. There are also elements that will remain secret such as the extent of secret services involvement.

She’s clearly in deep and very guilty. She played a massive part in this list of crimes and deserves to go down for a long time. Just like Andrew.

Just like Andrew.

Woah there.

Andrew's dad was mean to him too.

Proper class, the sort you can't buy:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59826091

In the same courthouse an hour or so before the Maxwell verdict, judges ordered Epstein’s plea deal to be unsealed 3/1/22

Andy’s lawyers said this protected him from prosecution.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/federal-judges-order-release-of-jeffrey-epstein-civil-settlement-at-issue-in-lawsuit-against-prince-andrew/

NEW: a document filed under seal entitled “Settlement Agreement and
General Release” involving Virginia Giuffree, captain underpants
@AlanDersh and Prince Andrew has been ORDERED to be made PUBLIC
January 3, 2022.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1476603396257828876

I wonder if the parents of the members of the Rochdale peado gang were mean to them.

They may well have been, abuse can often be a reason people abuse others, doesn't excuse their actions but goes some way to explaining them, and more importantly, can help with preventing a future cycle of abuse.

That's a fuller version of my point. Also something about how ppl from different classes and races are treated differently.

After her father's death she was rescued by Epstein. Was she another of his victims? Would she ever have preyed on young girls if she hadn't needed to pay her debt to him?

From what I gather the actual victims don't see it that way no.

Also, the predicament of 'not being a multi-millionaire' isn't generally recognised as something people need 'rescuing' from. If Epstein hadn't been there, she'd have had to, what, get a job? With nothing but an Oxford degree and some of the best connections money had bought? Yeah, you can see how that desperation would lead the best of us to the conclusion that the only way out was paedophilia.

Didn’t she have a job in real estate or something?

The last line of Philip Larkin's poem seems particluly apt in this case.

As others have suggested, and based on nothing more than casual observation, most really wrong un' type crimes seem to be traceable to family issues in one way or another. Doesnt excuse anything, but perhaps helps to explain. I'm sure that's the case whatever socio economic group you're born into - just a shame the wealthier you are the more of an excuse it seems to be.

Having just completed a family Christmas where my cousin in law, fucked up as a child by a loveless marriage, claimed he'd been abused as a kid - it all seems a bit close to home. The allegations seem unlikely based on my understanding and the fact he's a seriously delusional individual, but fuck knows tbh.

It's relevant that the loveless marriage of his parents was likely in part caused by the fact his mum was abused by her father, as were all the girls from that family - who are all messed up in their own way. He was fucked up by the war and depression and alcoholism that followed. So it's all Hitler's fault really. What did his parents do to him?

To be honest I didn't really know where to start with the comment. The fact she engaged in the sexual assault as well as the grooming and trafficking slightly taints the image of her as a victim too come to think of it.

It gets worse

She's fucking awful, she did fucking awful things, there's probably a few things that led her down the path of fucking awfulness, many privileges don't cancel out different experiences of awfulness. She deserves the comeuppance for her awful actions and chastisement for being an awful person. She may well have also been a victim whilst being an abuser, one doesn't excuse the other but if you can help more similar victims in the future you can maybe prevent them from following a similar path of abuse.

They're not the first couple to jointly abuse youngsters. I wonder if people who are interested in that kind of thing can sense it in each other when they meet? Or is it more likely that only one person is really into it, and they pressure the other one to join in? It's all so strange. I can't wrap my head around it at all. I don't see how anyone can be sexually aroused when the other person isn't enthusiastic. As for forcing a terrified child....it doesn't make any sense. It would be the biggest turnoff. How can anyone get pleasure from it? But it seems a lot of men do.

And apparently Prince William got an injunction in April to stop the press in England talking about his alleged affair with his wife's friend Rose Hanbury. Twitter and the US press are full of it.

Wasn't that thought to be part of why Meghan Markle was catching so much stick at the time? They were feeding stories about her to stop William articles?

Jan Moir, today's Mail with a hot take:

Jesus wept

You missed out the bit where she defended Maxwell by saying "at least she isn't as bad as Myra Hindley."

Then BBC getting Ian Maxwell on R4 this morning, gotta all be shitting themselves for Monday.

This is something straight out of Don't look up

Talentless Posh Lad cynically dupes gullible art world:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/jan/04/talents-madonna-son-divide-critics-secret-artist-rocco-ritchie

It ain’t what you know………