In the news

jeez louise that man got dropped from point blank range by an automatic police rifle. Mad to see it on video from so many close-range witnesses.

There was a MoP jogging away with a pretty big knife, but I suppose the police involved couldn't know if he had 'anything else' on him.

Only way I can see them being able to justify using deadly force (IANAPO)

You are balancing competing rights: But where do you start, as we have no obligation to donate organs or blood to our legal children, for example. You wrote you are pro-choice, what swung it for you?

That unborn children are classified in a way that prevents them having legal rights does not impact on any theoretical moral rights.
== No, hence the cut-off date of 24 weeks in nearly all countries, even where abortion is legal.

Though I am not sure medical ethics would use the term -moral- rights, I don't know how they define it, but even in Canada where abortion is full decriminalized there is a limit set by medical ethics.

But you could argue that just criminalizing in all cases impacts on moral rights of women as well.

Balance of harm is an easy case to argue, I think so, but you'd think unwanted and unloved children , families in poverty, and forcing women to stay with abusive partners is a clear indication of harm. How can a very early pregnancy be "harmed"?

Unless you consider starting life means you must fulful the process, but in that case IVF should also not be allowed as the success rate is low. But only the really hardcore pro-lifers want to go that far. Maybe those guys with their mad law proposal really want to go there...yey.

But you are right that it is possible a less abstract discussion swung it in ROI. As many groups spoke and the anger about the sexism of the RCC, the Magdalene laundries and actual women telling stories had an impact for sure.

I just notice that the lifers in NI/ROI have been generally quite dishonest in their arguments, completely ignoring the woman (never on the pictures, just the baby), twisting "evidence" on harm, pretending abortions are like killing babies, being vague on what life is.

I personally think the UK law is better than the ROI law, I don't agree with having to provide reasons after 12 weeks, but I think the decision was made fairly and fully informed.

Sorry to read it is so bad in London we were just talking about it in the office, hoping it was not too serious :(

my youngest daughter just started her new job today in a restaurant at Borough Market this lunchtime.. had asked mum about what happened in June 2017 this morning, and has been on lock down first shift not something easy to forget
:(

Ugh, sorry to hear this.

I was caught up in an IRA bomb when I was a kid and even though I was a long way from danger, the memories are still vivid.

In the past there was talk about fears of suicide vests and shooting to immobilise suspected terrorists to stop that threat. No idea if that was the case here.

police ( scotland yard ) just said there was a dummy suicide vest / hoax device

don't know if thats true or not

If it was a fake suicide vest it kind of worked.

Another life wasted because some gullible person ingested on-line bullshit, no doubt. Thank God it seems he didn't manage to kill or injure (?) anyone. Hope your daughter's all right, Al.

@DavidWohl Follow Follow @DavidWohl More Takeaway from #LondonBridge
incident: If law-abiding Londoners could carry firearms legally, it
probably wouldn't have happened.

Amazing how bold the terrorists are when they know their victims will
be unarmed.

https://twitter.com/DavidWohl/status/1200437277182193664?s=20

If law-abiding Londoners could carry firearms legally, it probably wouldn't have happened.

Two responses to that idiot:

1) Yes. In those places, they would have shot people with rifles. Fucking moron.

2) Because in places where law-abiding citizens can carry firearms legally, terrorist attacks don't happen, right? Like in the US? Fucking moron.

Please never give that man a scrap of daylight for his views.

In 2018 in the EU, less than 1 in 5 terror attacks were by jihadis.

In the USA, it's closer to 1 in 20.

Edit: Source: Europol

Worth it for the inventive and scatological abuse he gets.

Mayor Khan:

“What’s remarkable about the images we’ve seen is the breathtaking heroism of members of the public who literally ran towards danger, not knowing what confronted them.

“We do know from the statement given by the assistant commissioner Neil Basu that there appears to be a device on the suspect.

“Members of the public didn’t realise at the time that was a hoax device and they really are the best of us, another example of the bravery and heroism of ordinary Londoners running towards danger, risking their own personal safety to try and save others.

“And I want to say thank you to them on behalf of all Londoners but also because it shows the best of us.”

Sorry, I don't quite follow. What does that have to do with Jihadis specifically?

Sorry, wasn't actually replying to you. Must have clicked reply by accident.

Just thought that was interesting info, given the number of fuck jobs on the internet banging on about Islam.

Ah I see, no worries.

Jesus. Hope she's not too badly shaken, poor thing.

Two people (other than the perp) dead according to the Beeb.

.

Oh no. I was hoping the earlier reports meant no other casualties.

Before I read thread further, a colleague showed me a video of this earlier at work, shocking event & speed the footage had spread.

Fuck. :(