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What bothers me is that, like with any referendum, people will vote for many reasons, but they may get told that "no this was the only reasons" by whomever is going to be in power after this has settled if there's a majority vote for independence.
Aside from all the issues highlighted in the above article it may leave the reasonable majority heaped in with extremist which means only those in power will get what they want out of it.
And they have already called this referendum in a rather undemocratic way.
Spain's police is not exactly helping either. What a mess :(
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To be honest, I doubt the students scrawling Catalunya Lliure on toilet doors at the Universitat de Barcelona when I was there 17 years ago much cared about the history of the Cathars. Being a regional separatist/nationalist has long been a part of Spain's counter-culture, initially as a reaction to the Franquismo but it has stuck around after that ended. I don't mean to denigrate the identity by saying so, but the 'ancient hatreds' trope is as inaccurate as the idea that this isn't a real, felt identity. Past history is mobilised as a narrative to reinforce current feelings of community, even if elements of that history are contested.
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I've got a friend who is very Catalan but justifies it from quite a centre-right position about taxation and redistribution and how Catalonia is propping up the rest of Spain. Which is true but not the easiest argument to support.
A very similar conservative case for nationalism was being put forward by Catalan separatists in the mid-1930s, before the Civil War.
Catalonia has always been a bit of a weird melting pot of middle-class bourgeois conservatism and left-wing socialism and anarchism, and there's always been tensions among them and different reasons for wanting independence.
The intransigence of the Spanish government and the inflexibility of the constitution seems to be doing a great job of uniting a lot of competing interests though.
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Well, Catalan has been around for much longer obviously but the whole counter-culture thing that I witnessed felt very much something that had emerged out of the Franquismo. The Catalan Renaixenca didn't really gather momentum until the second half of the 19th C, and while the makers of modern catalanisme have made much of the period, the extent to which Catalan nationalism was a 'real thing' before the Civil War was still contested back at the turn of the millennium. Since the end of the Franquismo, though, the Catalan authorities have made a real effort to shore up the identity, and very successfully so.
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Catalonia has always been a bit of a weird melting pot of middle-class bourgeois conservatism and left-wing socialism and anarchism, and there's always been tensions among them and different reasons for wanting independence.
This is spot on. The students at the UB were very much on the left. The middle-aged men who swore at me on the tube ('puta sudaca' or 'sudaca de mierda') because I speak Spanish with a Puerto Rican accent were very much not.
On the ancient rivalries thing - I mean, in whichever context those come up, they are most always a story told today about yesterday to mobilise people who might otherwise disagree around a common goal. While I believe identities are deeply felt, I also think they can be quite fluid and multi-layered - which is why people spend so much time telling each other who they are and how they should accordingly feel.
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Was checking if my friends in BCN were ok (they are) I assumed as they were Catalan speakers and associated pretty strongly with the culture, that they were pro-independence. They aren't, but the behaviour of Madrid is forcing the country towards a binary decision.
As well we know a referendum can drive a wedge into society. The Spanish government has managed to escalate this division in the very actions of attempting to close the argument.
Total fuck ups -
Highly recommend this twitter thread on the Catalan situ.
https://twitter.com/karlobasta1/status/914603601472958464 -
That's a pretty horrible experience you've had with Catalan nationalism - what are your overriding feelings about it now?
I wish I knew more, or had time to read more, about contemporary Spain and Spanish politics, because what I do know I find fascinating.
The post-dictatorship period, the reinstallation of the monarchy, the 'democratisation', the attempted coup, ETA and now this seemingly as the next chapter.
Is there anyone suggesting that it's perhaps time for a new settlement, and questioning the ongoing suitability of the monarchy and the constitution now it's served its immediate purpose of helping the transition to democracy?
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Monarch gone bust, this has probably fucked my trip to Portugal in a few weeks.
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Catalan nationalism is a funny one, and Brexit kind of reminds me of it.
My fellow students were generally of the view that catalanisme was a valid position to take contra the 'fascists' in Madrid (this was the era of the conservative PP-led coalitions that had dominated for about a decade). I had some sympathy with this, as the Aznar govt was quite reactionary and I was a great believer in the idea that nation-states were constructs and that a more federal, devolved system was more democratic. At the same time, I'd studied Spain's democratic transition and read how fragile it had seemed at the time, and how crucial the constitution was perceived to be in establishing a settlement that would avoid future war - and there were also Catalan students on my courses at that time who were arguing that, while they wanted greater autonomy, they also didn't want to rip apart this post-Franco settlement.
So that was one aspect, which I was broadly sympathetic to.
The other aspect was xenophobia, which I was obviously less keen on. Rules of the era dictated that all classes must be taught in Catalan if any one student requested it, which put those of us who did not speak Catalan at a massive disadvantage. This right was exercised in a great many of my classes, meaning I had to get additional tuition from my professors in Castillian to cover the bits I didn't understand. There wasn't any debate about it - non-Catalan speakers were seen by the militant fringe of students as interlopers that should learn to speak the bloody language. We were 'xarnegos', a word largely describing Spaniards and South Americans who migrated to Catalunya and didn't speak Catalan fully (xarnego is also the word for the Spanish-Catalan hybrid slang a lot of people speak day to day).
And then yeah - getting called sudaca or xarnego on the tube by middle-aged men who thought I was an economic migrant come to sponge off the strong Catalan economy was fun. And this whole 'why are we subsidising the rest of Spain?' thing is a different branch of the same sentiment. (Plus it reminds me of this whole 'ungrateful black/Hispanic' thing that swirls around in US political discourse).
Oh, and the important nuance to the xenophobia? It's mainly directed towards southerners. If I told people I was English rather than Puerto Rican then they'd switch to Castillian and be welcoming and warm (this was before they got so sick of British tourists). It's hard not to see a form of racism in that, frankly.
Anyway, my view now is that the constitution avoided dealing with this set of circumstances because the authors didn't want to open that can lf worms (rather like Art 50) - which means there's no obvious off-ramp for the confrontation. It's an 'unstoppable force meets immovable object' problem. A new constitution is probably the only way to keep Spain together peacefully, but now the hard Catalan nationalists have the advantage after Madrid's catastrophic overreaction, I don't see them settling for that easily. But something has to change - this isn't going away.
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@Platini
The ECFR summary is quite good.
Although I do take issue with some of the polisci people who lecture Catalan nationalists on the legitimacy of their cause - telling someone that they are mistaken in history or law isn't going to suddenly undo their lived experience of their national identity.