In the news

^Would rep.

we were burning and torturing heretics

only if they weighed the same as a duck

THE EYE OF HURRICANE IRMA (Reuters) - The sky darkened, lightning flashed and a jolt of turbulence shook the cabin of the hulking Air Force turbo-prop aircraft as it plied its way toward the eye of Hurricane Irma, one of the strongest Atlantic storms ever recorded.

Piloting the four-engine, WC-130J aircraft was Air Force Reserve Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hitterman, who over the past 22 years has flown into 40 to 50 hurricanes.

Every storm is different but he likens the experience to driving through a car wash - with one big difference.

“As you’re driving through that car wash, a bunch of gorillas start jumping on top of your car,” Hitterman said, adding that sometimes shaking gets so bad, he cannot see his instruments.

!

Also, best dateline ever.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-storm-irma-eye-exclusive/exclusive-flying-into-the-eye-of-hurricane-irma-with-u-s-hurricane-hunters-idUSKCN1BK0KD

Not entirely sure I agree.
William Temple was an important player in the foundation of the welfare state and Wilberforce's attitude to slavery was directly motivated by a faith based on equality and freedom...

Where Christianity and politics gets messy is when personal morality gets confused with policy making. Sadly, this seems to be the reason that followers of a religion that preaches tolerance equality and liberty end up with such a poor voting record

William Temple was an important player in the foundation of the welfare state and Wilberforce's attitude to slavery was directly motivated by a faith based on equality and freedom...

Two men who happened to be Christian and whose faith - as they interpreted it - lined up against the regressive behaviour of most Christian churches and most Christians. Not much evidence for anything.

There have been several minority break-away movements over the centuries with an interest in social justice (e.g. during the English Civil War, John Wesley) but since everybody was Christian (or said so, to avoid painful death), you can't use them as evidence of Christian charity. Since those sects were consistently persecuted by the majority, I'd argue their progressive beliefs had fuck all to do with their faith, frankly. They found ways to align what they were doing with scripture because that was how you a) persuaded people to accept those beliefs, b) tried to avoid persecution for heresy. If you were born and raised Christian and decided that something was a good idea, since you also believed God was good, clearly you'd find a way to show why God would support it. Doesn't mean the idea had the slightest connection with a mystery cult that became the official faith of a bloodthirsty empire.

I agree, we can identify some Christians who were 'good people',
but,
their actions were despite being Christians.
These good/progressive/unsatisfied Christians had to argue that the staus quo supported by the Christian ethics of the time, was unacceptable and infringed upon basic human rights of the oppressed.
However for each good Christian, it is easy to identify a villain.
John Williams, the judge who sentenced the Tolpuddle Martyrs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_Martyrs
to penal transportation, no doubt considered himself a Christian.

Likewise, those organised, auithorised and led the cavalry charge at the Peterloo Massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre
were, no doubt, considered Christians.

Indeed their sense of selfworth pervades down the centuries.
John Scott, the Lord Chancellor when the Six Acts were introduced,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scott,_1st_Earl_of_Eldon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Acts
has a direct descendent who is currently in a public argument with an eminent scientist
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/27/jeremy-hunt-links-to-peterloo-gagging-laws

Irma's impact in Cuba

http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2017-09-08/minute-by-minute-hurricane-irma-in-cuba

(e.g. during the English Civil War, John Wesley) but since everybody was Christian (or said so, to avoid painful death)

Hang about. John Wesley wasn't even born until more than fifty years after the end of the Civil War and well after the abolition of the death penalty for blasphemy. And he wasn't just a Christian because everyone was, he was explicitly motivated by religion to do good and kind things when, apparently, 'spiritual life was at a very low ebb in Oxford.'

Two different things/examples in the same brackets, not the same thing.

Some Rees-Mogg material

gosh, hes not very likable is he?

I haven't seen one thing that endears him to me yet.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41219977

But...but... then with which hand might one hold the machete??

Fizzy snakes. Brilliant.

Dooring taken seriously by some!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/11/encourage-dutch-reach-to-stop-cyclists-car-door-deaths-says-charity

I like the sound of the dutch reach around.

Wanna go halves on a rudder?

I don't know what that is, but since it's you ... no fucking way.

Triple dutch rudder or GTFO...

Just googled it.

Sounds like an "I'm not gay loophole". I'll see if Michael Owen fancies one with me.

So that's a no?

They found ways to align what they were doing with scripture because that was how you a) persuaded people to accept those beliefs, b) tried to avoid persecution for heresy.
If you were born and raised Christian and decided that something was a good idea, since you also believed God was good, clearly you'd find a way to show why God would support it. Doesn't mean the idea had the slightest connection with a mystery cult that became the official faith of a bloodthirsty empire.

Fair enough - I guess I'd argue that these progressive people had a clear understanding of the central redemptive message of Christ and that the rotters were using a religious framework to serve their own ends ("fuck all to do with faith" to use your terminology)

Thing is though, nobody is even sure what Jesus' message was. Did he do away with the Jewish laws for example? Can you save yourself by following law? Were his apostles correct in being such sexist douches?

I think we can all agree "nice Jesus" is way better than "hell to y'all", but it's not even clear that image is Biblically correct.

But yep, the rotters will use religion to their own ends if they can...that's one thing we can all agree on I think :)

Doh!

You shouldn't write off everything someone says based on whether you like or agree with them. You'll end up in a eco chamber, narrow your thinking, and will struggle to understand people who hold different views.

Steady on.

You mean no true Christian behaves like that? Tricky.

But yep, the rotters will use religion to their own ends if they can

@JWestland Scruton is one of those.