In the news

And sure you'd never catch the Israelis doing anything so heinous as using human shields.

Oh wait.

Re the list of Palestinians dead. I'm guessing that is what happens when you use civilians as human shields and place them around your ammunition stores, stores which you know will be fired upon.

I guess too that if a terrorist organisation like Hamas fired rockets at the UK, the response from the UK would also seem disproportionate.

I have lots of family in Israel. Family who are under fire from rockets, even when there is a temporary ceasefire. I have young cousins who are likely to be called up into war. This conflict has a human side on both sides of the fence.

Personally, I am very worried about the amount of anti-semitic material I am seeing on websites and across Facebook and other social media. I am Jewish, I should not be afraid to say to anyone I am Jewish or be in fear of reprisals.

I agree with you about the conflation of anti semitism with anti zionism shoosh. Many jews are also anti zionist, or at least against the current israeli govornment and its reluctance to recognise a palestinian state.

However the people you call terrorists are akin to the Irgun, who are considered freedom fighters desite committing acts of terror in order to get israel recognised as a state. Israel has kept a crowded piece of dirt under lock-down. People living their live in crowded poverty with little opportunities to travel, work, live normal lives and set their own destiny. Of course bombing towns and neighborhoods will kill many people some of whom may be active militarily while some will not.

The situation has gone on for too long and I think it shameful that Israel with all its western financial and military backing and its supposed moral superiority (claiming its democratic values in a region with little democracy) can not agree to let these oppressed people go

^^^^

She should be afraid to say she's Jewish because she supports ... ?

I can find no sympathy for that, no matter what the value of "..."

let these oppressed people go

Let my people go?

Yes that was the inspiration for that expression

Needs person looking at that through a telescope, while standing in a landscape piled with Iraq dead.

[QUOTE=Shoosh;4349044
I guess too that if a terrorist organisation like Hamas fired rockets at the UK, the response from the UK would also seem disproportionate.
[/QUOTE]

The trouble with this analogy, and it was used by Tony Blair in a recent interview, is that for it to have any meaning then the UK would have to be behaving like Israel. And if it was, where would that place Tony Blair? And where would it place you, Shoosh? Would you support an illegal occupation, an army that murders with impunity, that uses illegal weapons, etc etc. I imagine, and hope, that if the UK government ever behaved like that you would be one of the people speaking out against it.

AndyP and Will have put it better that I ever will but yes, using analogies is meaningless because of the lack of context - i.e.; if the UK behaved like Israel rather than just "if a terrorist organisation like Hamas fired rockets at the UK" as a stand-alone statement.

There is no proportionality when you fight terror

Says a lot doesn't it.

The idea that it is Gaza's fault if their civilians die because they happen to be near ammunition dumps is ludicrous. If Israel accepts the massive collateral damage and pulls the trigger anyway, it's Israel's fault.
Not to mention the unprovoked attacked on UN schools and hospital camps.
Dicks.

and what Will and Andy said

The list of Palestinian dead makes me so, so sad and extremely angry.

The actions of Israel this year and for many years previously are disproportionate and illegal. I find it appalling that Israel has been allowed to carry on like this for so long, stealing other people's land and murdering innocents. Don't tell me that I'm anti-semitic for feeling this way, I find that quite offensive. I'm in no way anti-semitic, my disgust for Israel is nothing to do with the state religion and everything to do with the unapologetic disregard it shows towards the Palestinians.

I'm sure there are two sides to every conflict but I find it hard to sympathise with people who will be joining an organised, US-backed army in order to kill children.

Father Abraham had many sons

 Had many sons had Father Abraham
 I am one of them
 And so are you
 So let's just....

^^ agreed. but bear in mind that conscription in Israel leaves many young people with no choice. there is a strong history of refusing to serve, but it does also result in criminalisation and imprisonment.

top drinking song ^^

Decc fails utterly at social media
https://twitter.com/DECCgovuk/status/492265431915581441

i see things in iraq are going well... if by well you mean 'utterly horrific beyond all human comprehension'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28466434

fuck you, your god and your religion.

Its not religion that's the problem, its men. Blokes are behind pretty much all the shit that is going on everywhere and has ever gone on anywhere.

Isis & alqaida - Disgruntled 20-something men
Every other "terrorist group" - Geezers
Putin - total bear
All armies everywhere - blokes*

Just look at the news, you could pretty much replace every headline with "blokes fucking shit up".
Maybe some distant future human civilisation (if we last long enough) will be run by women and there won't be so much death all over the place.

*All the women in the Israeli army don't count because they don't have a choice

birds?

That's horrific. How many people is that? 500 thousand people going to be subjected to this torture?!

birds?

Should have put Doris' to make it EVEN MORE OBVIOUSLY TONGUE IN CHEEK.

Dorii

The trouble with this analogy, and it was used by Tony Blair in a recent interview, is that for it to have any meaning then the UK would have to be behaving like Israel. And if it was, where would that place Tony Blair? And where would it place you, Shoosh? Would you support an illegal occupation, an army that murders with impunity, that uses illegal weapons, etc etc. I imagine, and hope, that if the UK government ever behaved like that you would be one of the people speaking out against it.

It did. Ireland.

Dorii

I think it would be Dores. People always get penis>penii wrong as well. Octopus>octopi. Octopus=/=penus.

octopodes!

Wow.

Some rather disproportionate responses here ;)
(Comparing me to an IRA sympathiser and saying I haven't a clue what I'm talking about for instance)

I never said I condoned Israel's actions or that I was happy with the loss of life. There were over 1800 Palestinians killed last year by Syrians. The Middle East is all fighting amongst itself. This is all so wrong.

Israel should give back land but Hamas have said that even if Israel goes back to the 1967 borders, they will never recognise the State of Israel. So I can understand Israel's reluctance, (this still does not condone their actions). I don't think any of us know what the true answer that will bring lasting peace is, that would make both the Israelis and Palestinians happy.

I have been told by others 'to keep a low profile' that I am Jewish, that is how much anti-semitism is brewing in the UK. I have not accused others on here of being anti-Semitic but said this is what I am seeing across Facebook and other social media.