Polo Rules

People were generally impressed with SuperLuca's willingness to check other (bigger) players. But they seemed less keen on Ryan's version of physical play.
In my opinion both players were clean. Paul from Call Me Daddy however is generally borderline, especially when it comes to mallet hacking.

Ryan is big & scary, & therefore people feel frightened by him. As far as his play goes, he'll play to what he thinks he can get away with. He sat foot down in the goal for about 10 seconds with us (the London crowd) screaming at him to move out, because the rules said that a foot down player would get warned, not penalised, for first offence of not tapping out. Which was fair enough. I have reffed Ryan a lot, and he's very clever - not dirty - like a lot of the better players - in how he responds to rule-sets & refs.

Luca is relatively small, so people don't find it so scary, although those elbows are sharp, and hurt when you get them in the ribs. When he's a little bit older, and bit bigger, people won't be nearly so tolerant.

I haven't seen enough of Polo to say much, but he has a long mallet & long arms, and likes to reach around and slash, from what I saw. Which can be annoying.

If there was one other thing that wasn't penalised enough (or at all, really) it was slashing. There was quite of lot of it going on.

And some of the most intense body-checking came from UK players (according to people I've spoken to)

i was talking about illegal play not physical play. there's a difference.

i wasnt talking about anyone in particular or suggesting that the uk are clean.

Anyway, I don't want anyone to think that I didn't see some great polo last weekend (some of it happened in games that I was playing in!), but this is the rules thread...

I've always thought it unfair that small players get away with more than big players. It's seen as exuberance, whereas bigger players' exuberance comes across as dominance.

yeah, i think its weird that if i check someone i get cheered and if someone bigger does it they get booed. it seems a bit dark ages....

although there is only so much damage someone my size/strength/bike control can do. if someone big and strong gives their most is can get ugly especially on a smaller player. the weird thing is that it feels like people are trying to put each other down as hard as possible.

hmm. i dont really know what i think. but there has to be some consideration of excessiveness right?

Exactly, you need to write the rules with the assumption that someone weighing 90kgs and over 190cm will be able to make contact with someone a fraction of their size.

I admire the way you guys disuss the rules and take it seriously.

The thing is, after having played my first "important" games in Paris this week-end, that sometimes it's more a battle than a game, and that only two guys, Max and Marc, were able to ref' these... In many games, even totally clear mallet slashing weren't called. (who was called for slashing?)

In our game against DR, Luca's bodychecks and forearms pushings were always "safe" and regular. When we played against SB, we thought that one or two cheks came from blindside, and were dangerous. The second one was called with a double tap-out.

For us, playing for the first time in top ten euro games, it was pretty new, and maybe we (mostly I, I got mad a few times, my apologies to everyone I could have yelled at) did'nt manage this ideally. But the fact is, at the end of the tournament, we asked ourselves if we have to "ignore" a little the rules to reach the top of big tournaments.

Finally the answer was no, because we also saw some very clean and impressive games (Edisons, l'Equipe, Hooks).

So, I think that, first of all, we have to reward a lot good ref's, and try to give huge incentives to reffing. Reffing is as important (if not more than) as the quality of the courts, which are pretty expensive.

Cheat!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xscd78_ehbpc-2012-hooks-call-me-daddy_sport?from_fb_popup=1&code=AQCZGwlTWVdluesxw-nTjE-vLx1vzSzZK4NLHkpzkUdIWY0Bmzc1K5Ntw73n0lEF__va3z2MiUj7xBLkpbVbxGFWEBLmMIv6EFbMLgyzb9xxdZNJ2juT273MmGpjDW1KToEUcmO6vXM9dQj2FRu1-LrjsByInyfgNVpaoiSQkBzd8YqIPEcZ9koIp9cZ3IzQphs&fbc=285

There is a lot to say about reffin, rules, and way to play it during this EHBPC 2012.
I was thinking before that light or almost no reffin can be better than overuled and reffed games, Worlds in 2011 Seatlle was a good example in my opinion.
During this week end I saw several huge fouls, or dirty plays uncalled, or with player get only verbal warnings. I think ball turnover any time you see something like that is way more efficient than any other way to call foul. And being ready to cancel some goals.

Also my point about non-reffin' was also because i was thinking that most players were nices and realistic enough to don't think "if the ref is not using is wistle, then i can continue".
But this seems untrue when games count so much.

I don't know what to think also about the 20 last second of our games against spring break. The whole game was pretty awesome for me, and the last 20 seconds looks like a fuckin' non-sens bunny hop check (from my side) and double foot on the ground-bike in hand-push (from Ryan) or also mallet hack when dab (from my bro'). This all happens because it was a tie 0-0, between the first two teams of the groups, in a game were some collision happens and put more pressure, without any ref to stop it.

Pictures of this game here, sad that every important frame is missing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiralone/7621367266/in/set-72157630692953146#/photos/spiralone/7621367266/in/set-72157630692953146/lightbox/

My feeling is that Seattle was clean/awesome if you were there and perhaps seen as brutal/dirty by everyone else: "World Class Polo", right?

Sorry if you felt our game descended into chaos (it felt like WWF towards the end), we were also on the receiving end of brutal challenges at times and looked to the ref.... no call.

(Ryan has mastered dropping his shoulder to take people off their bikes if they look away, I can't imagine he'd push someone off their bike with his feet on the floor however.)

I agree with you guys that good refing especially early on in tournaments as competative as this is so important to set the standard for what is and isnt allowed. Once it gets to the later stages of the day, teams who haven't been called on anything arent going to start being more careful and considerate in the later games. It is also very hard for players in a game to always know exactly what they have done, as i believe a lot of fouls are unintentional (e.g. mallet under wheels) so it is important for refs to call these kind of fouls to make the players aware of their mistakes.

I think strong refing from the beginning is really important, especially when you have so many teams and a varying level of bike control as well as such high stakes.

(i will never ref...far too stressful and hard. i have a lot of respect for those who do)

I don't know what to think also about the 20 last second of our games against spring break. The whole game was pretty awesome for me, and the last 20 seconds looks like a fuckin' non-sens bunny hop check (from my side) and double foot on the ground-bike in hand-push (from Ryan) or also mallet hack when dab (from my bro'). This all happens because it was a tie 0-0, between the first two teams of the groups, in a game were some collision happens and put more pressure, without any ref to stop it.[URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiralone/7621367266/in/set-72157630692953146#/photos/spiralone/7621367266/in/set-72157630692953146/lightbox/"][/URL]

I watched that game, and you're right, it was a great game until the last minute, when there were several very questionable challenges, mostly from Spring Break (at least that I saw).

From a reffing stand-point, there certain moments in the game when you need several pairs of eyes, because there is so much going on, that no matter where you look, you will miss something.

Nik's right, IMO, when she says it's important for the refs to be tough in the early games. Generally, once the players get an idea of what's going on, they calm down.

honnestly i remember not even know who was reffin our game. when the ball get out of bounds for example, i was looking for who's gonna restart the game but didn't find it.

Ryan did it for sure. But pretty sure that my bunny hop check (even if it was really shoulders n shoulders) push him in a bad mood. I didn't dab on his move, but it was clearly a two feet on the ground push. Hope we can get a video of all of it. As i said all the frames on the flickr i posted misses, you just saw what happens before and after "funny" things. (pretty sure that he gonna push me in few milisecond here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiralone/7621368488/in/set-72157630692953146/#/photos/spiralone/7621368488/in/set-72157630692953146/lightbox/ : ) )
At the end, as we finished in a tie it was more fun than really important, also because it was a first stage game. But same situation, with a goal at the end, in a elimination game and you get fuckin' issues.

Cheat!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xscd78_ehbpc-2012-hooks-call-me-daddy_sport?from_fb_popup=1&code=AQCZGwlTWVdluesxw-nTjE-vLx1vzSzZK4NLHkpzkUdIWY0Bmzc1K5Ntw73n0lEF__va3z2MiUj7xBLkpbVbxGFWEBLmMIv6EFbMLgyzb9xxdZNJ2juT273MmGpjDW1KToEUcmO6vXM9dQj2FRu1-LrjsByInyfgNVpaoiSQkBzd8YqIPEcZ9koIp9cZ3IzQphs&fbc=285

Foul. He's not playing the ball at all.

I felt like those courts deserved more than just a few matches of awesome polo. Far too many "fuck-them-up" games for such outstanding courts/location/weather/ambiance combination.

If there was one other thing that wasn't penalised enough (or at all, really) it was slashing. There was quite of lot of it going on.

From the outside looking in, this seems like another North American influence. I felt like a year or so ago, we'd got on top of the 'hooking not hacking' thing, but watching videos from the NAHBPC this year, it seems hacking is totally accepted.

I don't play at this level, but much prefer having a firm, vocal and if necessary interventionist ref. It makes me feel safer on court, in what has the potential to be a ridiculously dangerous sport. There seems to be a strong 'tit-for-tat'/revenge angle to a lot of these fouls, which a good ref can really draw a line under early on.

Cheat!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xscd78_ehbpc-2012-hooks-call-me-daddy_sport?from_fb_popup=1&code=AQCZGwlTWVdluesxw-nTjE-vLx1vzSzZK4NLHkpzkUdIWY0Bmzc1K5Ntw73n0lEF__va3z2MiUj7xBLkpbVbxGFWEBLmMIv6EFbMLgyzb9xxdZNJ2juT273MmGpjDW1KToEUcmO6vXM9dQj2FRu1-LrjsByInyfgNVpaoiSQkBzd8YqIPEcZ9koIp9cZ3IzQphs&fbc=285

Ridiculous! Should've been taken off court for at least a minute.

Spring Break Vs Iron Ponies.
Some really shitty bike on bike move at the end (especially from me, twice on jono, even if i just fall alone on the last t-bone attempt).
Best move so far is the 10 seconds foot in the net by Ryan when he dabbed.

https://vimeo.com/46250141

There is a 'fuck em' up rule' and no ref with experience to enforce the rule and peeps are now talking about excessive force? Get the rule out and get everyone used to it especially refs before applying it to a tourney? There were talk about using the Euros rules for the London qualifiers, I for one am pretty glad it was ruled out. Reffin' a regular game with the previous rule set was already tough enough, changing the rules before a major tourney with no bed-in period? Personal opinion: Changes in rules should always be notified in advance, will be brilliant if it was tested in a few local events around a few or even all scenes and get the feedback in place.

Ignore all the above if it's tl;dr, in short: we need a European body to decide on rules, to get reps together and more than anything else ensure that we are being taken seriously. Sudden changes should always be a no-no, the element of suprise will most of the times end up with bitching and finger pointing.

Most of the problems we see this week end as really nothing to do with the change happened in the ruleset, major major change was about holes sizes on mallet, starting joust at goal line( which worked better than I expected), and I can't. Remember major other one. The matter is more in making a ref staff that you can meet before. I think you can add changes even the day of the tourney if they make sense. I also say that because I don't know wich ruleset for whbpc. I think draft 2.0 of nah is the clearest I can find right now.

But agree that some European body and meeting about ruling and reffin more than important.

Not wanting to sound like a broken record, but forearm? It would have been tested in time for the WHCBPC but it's more for moving forward, getting players and ref accustomed to the rules prior to a major tourney.

Glad we agree on this.

But agree that some European body and meeting about ruling and reffin more than important.

I didnt see a single 'strong call' all weekend. which was whack. I got 'toppled' by sophie. Slashed across the throat by mario of l'equipe to stop me scoring on an open goal. (which he completely admitted and apologised profusely for, saying he "lost his head") both should have been 30 second pens. Mario possibly even 2 min. It directly stopped us getting an equaliser and its blatant mallet on body. I dont give a damn if you've won the thing 3 times, it shouldnt happen, or it should be dealt with. I have seen every single team push the limit of what is acceptable, including DR. Polo took out woods then scored, Max brought the two teams together and the goal still stood after a long chat. I felt bad for them, but i never saw it at the time so didnt know why woods was so angry. Its easy to miss, (after several beers and pretty ladies all around). Marcs whistle for ball turnover when i scored was pretty lame, I was on that ball like lightning, but he was too quick to whistle rather than use advantage. I also saw him blow the whistle for half time as boagey was shooting into an open net. I thought he could have let that one go at least. The two things coincided almost exactly, but it was good to see him be vocal and make calls. Overall i thought we all did well, refs, players and hecklers. Meh what you gonna do.

Best move so far is the 10 seconds foot in the net by Ryan when he dabbed.

We were screaming at him to get out of the goal!

As a non-EHBPC attendee, this makes for some really depressing reading and viewing.

Obviously playing to the rules/ref is a method of getting an advantage, but it ain't cool, man. Surely you want to keep the sportsmanship that is usually found on polo courts, rather than the gamesmanship you find in other sports.Moar booing at dick moves is quite clearly the way forward.

It might be an interesting game if games were reffed against how dickish your move was instead of the rulebook.