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I think Ewers and Armand are both great, and their omission at the time when we were picking ineffective backrows with Haskell and Robshaw in was massively frustrating, but I also think in Curry, Underhill, Willis and probably Earl (caveat being I've never actually seen him play well) we're building a multi-faceted high-skill, high-power back row that offers more than the wonderful Exeter grunting 6's can really bring to the international table. I would love to see Simmonds in the mix as well, albeit Billy at his best (hasn't been there for 2 years, although flashed at the weekend) has a higher ceiling than anything I've seen from SS (don't watch every game, but have seen every big match in Europe for the past few years and a good number of league games each season) and on his day is potentially one of the best 8's of the past 10 years. But I have no idea why EJ thinks Curry or Earl would be better options at 8 in his absence...
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was there not someone of greater renown he could have been compared to at such a young age #nopressure
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Yes, I think it takes a mindset shift as to the role of the back row, with both the Currys, Underhill, Earls, Simmonds and Mercer, we have the potential of a multi-faceted, ball handling, line breaking back row, that can compete at the breakdown with the best of them. The one thing that is missing there is a player who can smash 1 on 1, although Mercer is pretty good at that.
Billy vs Simmonds is an interesting one, as they are such different styles of number 8, in unstructured broken play I would take Simmonds any day, his ability to beat a man is really impressive for his size, he also has a very quick mind, you only have to see his try on Friday night to see that, saw a gap and before you know it is in under the posts. Plus he scores loads of tries.
However I think there are 2 things going against him currently, first, England play more structured from the 8 position, and second half of Simmonds tries are scored with big Dave Ewers half carrying him over the line, and neither Curry or Underhill have the same heft to be able to do that.
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re: Vunipola - I commented in an earlier post that he'd significantly upped his game and agree he's been underwhelming for a couple years rarely stringing a couple of decent games together. I also wonder if my perception of him having a really good 'old Billy' game was in fact more a case of him seeming to play and carry with much greater vigour and full effort and enthusiasm as opposed to the half-speed tripe he'd been churning out previously.
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Oh bugger! He was a centre in his early days (pre-pro) days I believe (now I've googled it). This is good, feeling my age but next we'll talking about Martin Madden (who I'm sure I played against as a 17yr old maybe when he was at the Pirates before they went pro) having genuine backs' pace. More recently (end of my playing days and they probably wanted someone old who could cover a few backs positions if they were desperate) in a pre-season friendly, I played against Ford-Robinson (and bloody Townsend of the Chiefs) also for the Pirates (development team but still those two and maybe Tom Bodily - 10 mins 2 tries) - what is it with Penzance and fast props!
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Lumbering is a good description, yet he always seem to score against us. Twelvetrees is another one of those players who seems to have been around for years too.
LRZ and May is quite a pair of wingers they have there, now they just need to sort out the other 13 players on the pitch ;-)
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Yes, Exeter have really mastered the latch, as evidenced by LCD reinvigorating the tap and go penalty for 5 metres out, which he is deadly from when he is carried over the line by big Dave.
Billy was certainly the best I have seen him for a while, but he was massively outshone by Falatau, so maybe that is the future., someone just needs to tell Eddie.
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who I'm sure I played against as a 17yr old maybe when he was at the Pirates before they went pro
Reminds me I played against one M.Tindall as a schoolboy, when he was at QEGS Wakefield. I came on as a blood sub, dragged over to the 1st XV pitch from the U16 bench. Taught me I'd never make it as anything other than a very social rugby player...
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talking of lovely hair!
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Wow - that's cool; the "when I played against Tindall" story is one often told I suspect. Yeah - that rude awakening moment often sticks. I was (didn't realise at the time) hot-housed as a 14-15 year old (mid-90s) and played a decent amount of representative rugby Union and also League clubs with my father utilising the 'try and get the 15-16 year old to develop a man's body' technique of coaching. I remember playing against (have to Google) a winger called Elijah Sabanjo as a 16 year old (think he was highly touted sprinter and England youth international who never quite made it) and it sticks in my mind as within 5 minutes it became clear that having neglected development of craft, skill and technique I was buggered against someone who was stronger and quicker than me.
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@wibble
Yes interesting thought. Apparently his Bath contract is up at the end of the season and he is being linked with going back to London Irish. I remember he was going to be the English Jonah Lomu apparently...