Rugby

Awesome performance from Wales. Just demolished England. Out classed in every area of play. Frustrating to watch as an England supporter but a wonderful game of rugby.

Their forwards smashed our forwards. So badly that I dont think our backs had a chance.

Tuilagi should have passed the fecking ball. How is smahing it up a good idea, when we are being totally outclassed in the ruck.

Ashton should have been slapped, and sent home without any supper. Running around in a tantrum stamping on rucks randomly from the side. Pathetic.

Other than that, Wales where better. The bookies had them down for a lose, and they smashed out a victory, on their home ground, to grab the trophy. I say welldone.

Ashton.. WAC..

On a slightly unrelated note.. Scrums.. They have been woeful. I can't help but think that bad surface of pitches is playing a major part in this..

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When were the steps from the ref changed?

I don't follow rugby much, but seeing that change suggested that the packs, coming together for the first time in a while, were struggling with the new steps.

And the pauses between seemed to vary so much, cant help be feel that some sort of automated system, beep ... beep ... beep, would take a lot of uncertainty out of the set up, and make it back to a straight contest between the two packs.

That said, better pitches would help massively

In general or just Wales vs. England last Saturday?

Did England do well enough to stop the first try? If that was my team I wouldn't be happy with the tackle that Owen Farrell? made.

On a slightly unrelated note.. Scrums.. They have been woeful. I can't help but think that bad surface of pitches is playing a major part in this..

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I dont think collapsing inward, and downward, a'la England, can be blamed in the pitch.

But the packs don't seem to be able to get good purchase on pitches like Millennium and Stade de France. Turf cuts up like a loose carpet.

But the packs don't seem to be able to get good purchase on pitches like Millennium and Stade de France. Turf cuts up like a loose carpet.

There where massive chunks of turf coming up in all the games. So its a major factor. But I felt Englands front row simply could'nt live with Wales. Cant help but feel there are other factors involved.

When were the steps from the ref changed?

I don't follow rugby much, but seeing that change suggested that the packs, coming together for the first time in a while, were struggling with the new steps.

And the pauses between seemed to vary so much, cant help be feel that some sort of automated system, beep ... beep ... beep, would take a lot of uncertainty out of the set up, and make it back to a straight contest between the two packs.

That said, better pitches would help massively

The steps were changed from crouch, pause, touch, engage to crouch, touch, set at the start of this season. It is supposed to be more predictable and encourage the packs to come together gently and not hit but it has been achieved neither of these.

There are many problems with the scrum and actually the pitch comes way down the list. The biggest problem is inconsistency with the referees, many of whom (in fact almost all of whom) have no experience in the front row so will never truly understand the mechanics of what the props are doing to try and disrupt their opposition. Technically the front row should only ever push straight and level, in reality the tight head will try to push the heads of the oppo hooker and loose head down while the loose head will try to push the tight head up (this is grossly simplified and does not cover a whole raft of more dirty techniques such as boring in etc.)

The second biggest problem is the hit, technically this is illegal, the law clearly states that neither side can push until the ball comes into the scrum. There is no way that you can generate the amount of force that comes from the hit and then stop, nor would a pack want to as they would immediately lose the advantage that they have gained from winning the hit. To counter this and to stop his side from being penalised the scrum half will put the ball in as soon as the two front rows come together unless it is very obvious that his side have not won the initial contact (if this is the case the referee will likely penalise the defending team for pushing early).

This brings us on to the third biggest problem, the scrum half throwing the ball straight to the feet of his own second row. Again this is CLEARLY illegal according to the rules of the game but like the hit it has crept in over time and for some reason the referees and law making bodies have allowed it to happen. By allowing this you turn the front row from a unit that is designed to hold up the scrum and return the ball to the feet of the number 8 to three guys who will push with all of their might, this makes it a lot more difficult for them to effectively hold up the scrum.

The fourth biggest problem is the laws and the referees themselves. The law surrounding the set piece (both scrum and lineout) is massively complicated as it has only ever really been added to over the years dead wood has never been stripped away. To give you an example, in the hit there are something like 20 different possible infringements that are mentioned in the laws, this is over in a split second, it is impossible for the ref to evaluate the hit and check that all of those infringements are not made. Referees will therefore ref the set piece according to what they perceive to be the priorities, this varies from individual to individual and means that the pack will never play to the same rules from one week to another.

What can be done? To my mind it is simple:

1. Either allow the linesmen to have more input on infringements at the scrum (my preferred option), allow the 4th official more input, or introduce another official whose sole job is to referee the scrum (this would have to be someone with experience in the FR)
   
2. Make the hit illegal.
   
3. Make straight put ins compulsory.
   
4. Simplify the laws surrounding the set piece.
   
   

If at least steps two and three are done it would go a long way to sorting the problem out.

The steps were changed from crouch, pause, touch, engage to crouch, touch, set at the start of this season.

Ah, that makes sense. I had assumed that they would do it at the start of the season, as opposed to the start of an international championship, but this was the first I'd seen of it (#plasticfan!)

All your other points make sense, and it's nice (?) to see that it's not just the UCI that are clueless

I think that it would be a pretty close competition between the UCI and IRB for the title of most stupid law making body in sports.

The steps
.....
out.

I've had to demand an instant feed from my 9, due to being grossly over powered in the scrum, on loads of occasions.

Which makes no sense according to the rules.

I may be old fashioned. But the forward lean of the front row seems to increase every season to me. The way the props are set-up, its had to see anything other than a 'hit' being possible. Unless your second row is super human.

I think that it would be a pretty close competition between the UCI and IRB for the title of most stupid law making body in sports.

I dont mind the rules per say. But the extreme level of focus a handful of rules get, at any one time.

I may be old fashioned. But the forward lean of the front row seems to increase every season to me. The way the props are set-up, its had to see anything other than a 'hit' being possible. Unless your second row is super human.

I totally agree if you look at the position that world class props end up in once they are engaged it is actually impossible to hold the scrum up watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBxC9BoOd2I

Everything about his body position is set up to provide drive forward, not to prop.

Great explanation Bobbo..

Maybe the formation of an soft "uncontested" set like league. Where the pack come together then a "feed!" whereupon the pack push? This will also stop scrum halves fucking about??

Crouch.

Form

Feed

Just a wild idea

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It used to happen in the good old days, the shift to how the scrum is now started in the early 90s you can still have a contest if the packs come together gently. The hookers contest with each other for the ball, the 2nd row and the back row push like their lives depend on it and the props transmit the power of the back five to the opposition while trying to disrupt the opposition hooker by making it more difficult for him to hook.

yep.. That's how it was done.. So why have the IRB let it all go to pot. The way the scrums are played nowadays is a massive disruption to the game for players and spectators alike rather than a "safe and easy way to restart the match"..

Having a set piece take over 5 minutes to play and, of late, ultimately end in a penalty is just dull..

Good analysis Bobbo. I agree though about the 9s putting the ball straight into the second row. I've noticed how that never gets called but I assume that it's because the ref is always on the opposite side of the scrum from the put in. A dedicated ref would help for that - or even a linesman. But they also never call the steeply angled throws at the line outs either. It would be great to see that sort of thing tidied up.

^^The initial reasoning behind it was to make the game more of a spectacle. Once they started down that route no one had the balls to go against the grain and now you have what we do now. I would however say that the difference in attitude between NH and SH teams at scrum time is huge.

SH teams do not have the same problem that we do here, both sides do everything that they can to win the ball fairly as they are less reliant on a territory game and are willing to attack from anywhere. They see it as an opportunity to win ball while keeping at least 5 players bogged down and giving the backs a chance to run in space.

Many teams in the NH see it as an opportunity to win a cheap penalty and will appeal to the referee continually (something also needs to be done about this as the only player on a team to talk directly to the ref should be the captain) a good example of this is the soft engage that Wales won penalties from against Scotland. Wales were late to engage and tricked the ref into thinking that Scotland had gone early. Wales have by far and away the most street wise front row, however a soft engage would also neutralise this.

Many teams in the **NH see it as an opportunity to win a cheap penalty **and will appeal to the referee continually (something also needs to be done about this as the only player on a team to talk directly to the ref should be the captain) a good example of this is the soft engage that Wales won penalties from against Scotland. Wales were late to engage and tricked the ref into thinking that Scotland had gone early. Wales have by far and away the most street wise front row, however a soft engage would also neutralise this.

repped

Good analysis Bobbo. I agree though about the 9s putting the ball straight into the second row. I've noticed how that never gets called but I assume that it's because the ref is always on the opposite side of the scrum from the put in. A dedicated ref would help for that - or even a linesman. But they also never call the steeply angled throws at the line outs either. It would be great to see that sort of thing tidied up.

It never gets called because the refs are briefed to allow it in order to make top flight rugby more flowing and therefore more appealing to spectators. This is something that has backfired the players know that they can get away with it and will therefore take advantage of it. The ref can see it every time they have effectively been told not to enforce that rule.

If they want to make the game more flowing then they should make the pitch 10m wider.

Funnily enough there is no set dimensions to a rugby pitch! there is a minimum and maximum width and length but teams are allowed anything that fits into this requirement.

I still think that some pitches are woeful. Stade de France is a joke. Even a "soft" scrum and push would be hard to keep up once the turf give like that..

I totally agree if you look at the position that world class props end up in once they are engaged it is actually impossible to hold the scrum up watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBxC9BoOd2I

Everything about his body position is set up to provide drive forward, not to prop.

There is no way a hooker could contest a central ball in that position. Not unless you where flexible enough to suck your own cock. In which case I doubt you'd find the time to train to international levels.

It used to happen in the good old days, the shift to how the scrum is now started in the early 90s you can still have a contest if the packs come together gently. The hookers contest with each other for the ball, the 2nd row and the back row push like their lives depend on it and the props transmit the power of the back five to the opposition while trying to disrupt the opposition hooker by making it more difficult for him to hook.

ahhh. The good old days.

Wales have by far and away the most street wise front row, however a soft engage would also neutralise this.

I thought the 'delaying the put in' calls over the weekend were pretty harsh with this in mind.