Swimming

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1500m swim this morning. All front crawl, no breaststroke (which I used to need to do to recover). Plenty of pauses between 100m sets though, reducing the rest gaps is the next thing for me to work on so I can do the full 1500m in one go (I'll leave ladders and kick/pull sessions until I've got the fitness up, and then I'll also look to get a lesson for an instructor to pull my technique to pieces.)

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Yes, this is vastly different from your current technique.

I had a distinctly average swim this morning so signed up for a 3k river swim in June. Hmm.

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Interesting. I've been swimming in a coached masters swim session for a while and for the past few weeks I've been feeling a bit frustrated because the coach is trying to get me to make a change in my 'timing' and I really struggle to feel or even understand exactly what it is I'm supposed to be doing. But, I think by comparing my video with Hazel I can begin to see it.

Look at the 2 screenshots, and you can see that while Hazel's recovering arm is coming over his shoulder, his leading arm has only just stopped extending and is just beginning to drive through. By contrast, at approximately the same point in the stroke my arms are almost opposite, with my recovering arm coming past my shoulder but my leading arm already almost vertical beneath me.

I'm pretty sure that is what the coach is talking about so now I just need to learn to feel when I'm getting it right.

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^ It's weird, I tried to think about where my recovering arm was I started to pull but found it almost impossible to visualise it as I was swimming. Guess that's why being videoed helps.

I dread to think what my technique ended up looking like at the end of today's swim. When I first started getting back into swimming I struggled to do 3 back to back lengths without having a break. I've slowly built up to having fewer rests.

Today I did 5 sets of 200m as a warm up and then decided to keep going (and a relatively sedate pace of about 2:20/100m) without any breaks for as long as I could (or my time was up). Very happy that I made it all the way through to the end of the time I had, and I'd done 1200m in that one block but, as I said, my technique was all over the shop as I tired.

Need to think about what bits and bobs I need to support some proper training:-

• First on the list are some jammers (rather than flappy shorts with pockets)
  
• Pull buoy and kickboard for pull/kick sessions
  
  

Anything else recommended whilst I'm filling up an order on Wiggle? Are the hand paddles worth it for strength training or only if required/recommended? I guess the same goes for fins (years of riding fixed, playing 5-a-side and being heavy mean I've got pretty good leg strength).

I definitely plan on getting some coaching once I've got my swimming fitness up to reasonable levels. I understand that buying random training shit online is not going to magically help correct poor technique.

Paddles can be useful for improving your catch and recovery. If you're using them solely for power training, you're likely to bake in some bad habits.

Strong legs aren't really helpful in swimming - Buy a rubber band to put around your ankles for body position drills.

Front snorkels can be useful for drills where you don't want to be coming out of the water to breathe - body roll drills, catch up drills etc...

It's weird, I tried to think about where my recovering arm was I started to pull but found it almost impossible to visualise it as I was swimming. Guess that's why being videoed helps.

That was exactly my problem too... I watched the video of myself and thought 'oh, that's a bit messy' but didn't really have any idea what I was doing wrong. Then my coach started hammering on about rhythm and timing but for 4 weeks I just didn't get it. I sort of understood what I thought he wanted me to do and I thought I was doing it, but apparently only for a couple of strokes each length, and never consistently. It wasn't until watching that Hazel video and mine side by side that something finally twigged and for the first time I can now actually feel when I get it right in the water.

I'd seen that Hazel video several times before, I guess you also just need to have that serendipitous coming together of different things in your mind.

I only use paddles and fins in the masters sessions and only for drills, they aren't allowed in public sessions in my pool (even if the lane is completely empty!!!!!) so they don't get much use. Also, I only use kick board and pull buoy rarely and my pool have a stack of them for people to use so I wouldn't bother buying my own.

I think if I were going to spend any money on swimming then I'd buy some coaching time and then maybe one of these http://www.swimsmooth.com/finis-tempo-trainer-pro.html I don't have one but it might make pacing lengths easier (http://www.swimsmooth.com/training.html)

Strong legs aren't really helpful in swimming - Buy a rubber band to put around your ankles for body position drills.

A quick go with some floats the other day shows that my legs might be my weak point. I was doing fine on the pull lengths, so it must be the kick bit that's not contributing enough.

Parcel with kick float and pull buoy was delivered today so I'll do a few lengths of each at the end of my Friday morning swim and see what the timings say. I might make my Sunday morning swim into a kick/pull session.

Weak in what way? Endless kicking with a float will just bed in poor form & position. You need drills that expose the weakness, and force you to adopt a good technique.

Sorry, should have been clearer. I've been reading up on kick technique and watching videos, I have a few drills to try now to improve it.

Ah, got you.

Get someone with a camera to film you too - seeing your technique under water is as useful as it is cool.

A go-pro on a stick would work.

Get someone with a camera to film you

Yep, proper coaching when I get fit, I'm going to ask one of the instructors at the pool when I'm next there.

2600m in 55mins this morning, so that would be 1h20 for a 3.8km swim (at the same speed). For the slvlss brigade, how (in general) do pool times sans-wetsuit compare with open water swims in a wetsuit? I'd be guessing that open water is at least ~10% slower (assuming not hideous conditions).

Happy with that anyway, and it can only get better as I get fitter/lighter and improve my technique (no swimming teachers at the pool this morning, will hopefully find someone when I go back later with my daughter).

Also looking at the Wimbledon Windmilers site as they do swimming coaching somewhat nearby (but Monday night's aren't great for me). It's starting to get a little #srsbzns.

Depends.

Wetsuits can make you quicker - you are more buoyant and have a better position in the water.

Pools give you a rest at every end when you kick off, so it depends on what turns you do, and how quick they are.

Losing weight might make you slower too - more muscle and less fat means lower buoyancy, and a tendency for your legs to sink.

I was doing mostly slow manual touch and turn as it meant I'd go the same pace as the other person using the lane. Bit out of practice doing tumble-turns so I get the occasional nose full of water that leaves a spluttering start to the length; just need to practice them.

I'd be guessing that open water is at least ~10% slower (assuming not hideous conditions).

I find the opposite. I think I'm faster in OW with a wetsuit - my PB for 3.8km was in a standalone lake swim and was (IIRC) just under 10% faster than I could do for a timed effort in the pool at around the same time. Completely anecdotally, I'd attribute the difference to the wetsuit but there may also have been some more drafting in the lake swim when compared to the pool but I doubt it would have made that much difference.

I also did a non-wetsuit lake swim around the same time and in that race I was in the region of 25% slower - although I'd put most of that down to the hypothermia rather than the lack of buoyancy.

In other news, I think I can now feel when I'm doing my new technique 'right', and when I'm getting it wrong... however my CSS pace is now about 10sec/100m slower than it was before. I'm hoping that things will improve quickly as the new technique beds in, but I was feeling a bit despondent yesterday when a load of guys from the university swim club joined my lane...

swam in the jubilee this afternoon, my god it was so cold, but worth it!

Crikey this thread's got all proper. I still haven't really started swimming again. So weird. All those years of loving it and now running's completely taken over. Must get back in the pool. I do miss it a bit.

First cold water swims of the winter this weekend, down in Folkestone. After a stormy week, the water was flat calm, though deceptively chilly. It's supposedly 9-10 degrees, but felt colder, though that may be due to a lack of acclimatisation. It's always harder work in flat water, as the waves manage to occupy your mind and stop you concentrating on the fact that you feel so cold you may actually die.

Only managed 20 mins on Sat, but htfu'ed on Sunday and stayed in for 40 mins. First in, last out - always good to have a minor victory. My swimming was shocking though - all the time off means I'm way behind folks I used to be faster than.

Edinburgh for New Year's should be a good opportunity for some toughening up training.

looking forward to getting out in the open water again whilst I'm sure a winter in the pool swimming 3x per week is doing my technique good, the frustrations of lane swimming are exactly that - will start before official lake opening this year - mainly to help me acclimatise as my race season starts in May and I don't want to be panic breathing by that stage!

I've now got to the stage where I'm one of the quicker swimmers in the fast lane at my local pool, and I try to be patient but seriously there are people there who are swimming at least 3 times per week yet cant or don't tumble turn so they don't hold me up often during the length, but I'll close up 5m at each end - there's a front crawl only sometimes at the pool, I'm tempted to ask if it can be front crawl and tumble turn only!

Some pretty fast OW swimming:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152552197357261

Tried out hand paddles yesterday, fucked my wrist as I was a bit too enthusiastic, now have to wear a splint. #fml

lol
I have been swimming for 30 years and I still cannot tumble turn. If I attempt to I end up with water up my nose, coughing and spluttering and usually facing the wrong way.
I think some people are just unable to do it :)

Planning to go to the Manchester Aquatics Centre tomorrow - has anyone else been? Is it nice?