Vice Student guide

Will.

I am disappointed, not because you are listening to Genesis but because you thought that I might be an unreconstructed hippy. You young people can listen to such stuff in an ironic way. In 1976, we were able to throw out Genesis and Pink Floyd and concentrate on decent music.

Mind you, some of us had ignored them before then and listened to the likes of my avatar instead.

Vice has always been about humour & opinionated writing without the fear and moderation that killed the spirit of magazines like The Face way back.

I found it like a total antidote for a few years, and it's still the only glossy mag I can read cover to cover without feeling like shit.

Me neither Clive. Mind you I am listening to, and enjoying, a 1976 Genesis album.

Ahhh another....

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.

Christy, take off your robe.

Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism.

Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little.

Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock.

Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole.

Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds.

Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it.

But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

Perhaps it's just because when I was a kid, hipsters listened to such stuff amd read Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I preferred Burroughs and VU.

On the Vice front, never knew it existed. Looking at the state of some people knocking around the east end you have to have a market for any shit. Fair play to them for making a few quid, amongst their piers they must know how low they pitch it.

I like the way it rubs people up, the number of nerves hit in this thread would make a Parkinson riddled surgeon proud

^Patrick Bateman up there...^
(Phil Collins critique).

You are Patrick Bateman and ICMFP.

Now go stamp on a tramp.

Perhaps it's just because when I was a kid, hipsters listened to such stuff amd read Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I preferred Burroughs and VU.

Mate, those were hippies - you were the embryonic hipster...

ICMFP - Jim you lost me with this hipster slang

Give it me straight in the queens!

But i am putting on the bunny slippers to find that hobbo... and not the one that looks like Jonny.

Hobo

Insane Clown Mutha Fuggin' Posse.

In 1976, we were able to throw out Genesis and Pink Floyd and concentrate on decent music.

Mind you, some of us had ignored them before then and listened to the likes of my avatar instead.

in 1976 my parents hadn't even met.

I Claim My Five Pounds...

in 1976 my parents hadn't even met.

Hopefully, they were therefore inspired by the energy and spirit of the Clash rather than the more self indulgent tones of Genesis.

[You know how to make someone feel old.]

I preferred Burroughs and VU.

Truly a man of taste.

I bought the Velvet Underground and Nico album when I was 14. It sounded so weird that the first time I listened to it I had to sit outside my bedroom with the door closed, I was rather confused.
Within two years I was listening to Metal Machine Music, double album, all the way through in one sitting.
Then started on Burroughs, with Junky.

Will.

I am disappointed, not because you are listening to Genesis but because you thought that I might be an unreconstructed hippy. You young people can listen to such stuff in an ironic way. In 1976, we were able to throw out Genesis and Pink Floyd and concentrate on decent music.

Mind you, some of us had ignored them before then and listened to the likes of my avatar instead.

You've got me wrong there Clive. It wasn't about you at all. And I was not listening to it in an ironic way; I have no time for that so-bad-it's-good nonsense or 'secretly' enjoying stuff that you 'know you shouldn't like'. I like early Genesis, have done since about 77 when I first bought some. Not anything mentioned in the other post above though, Sussudio and all that crap. Don't care what anyone else thinks; I could, but mercifully won't, put up a defence of their 70's stuff. Don't need to drop the names of hipper or more obscure bands I like to prove anything. I only mentioned it as a counter point to Vice which sounds like it concerns itself with the up to date.
Perhaps I was being ironic; I've heard a lot of members don't get it. ;)

Truly a man of taste.

I bought the Velvet Underground and Nico album when I was 14. It sounded so weird that the first time I listened to it I had to sit outside my bedroom with the door closed, I was rather confused.
Within two years I was listening to Metal Machine Music, double album, all the way through in one sitting.
Then started on Burroughs, with Junky.

I recently passed the time on a five hour flight by listening to Metal Machine Music in one sitting on my I-Pod. By the end, I think I was starting to understand it which worried me inordinately.

Pfff! Ageing hipsters... Worse than the young 'uns! And The Stooges beat The Velvets in a fight, any day of the week... Pfff! (again, just for emphasis)

Lester Bangs' musings on MMM are great. I don't listen to it often, but I admire someone who produces great pop stuff, then 4 sides of noise. My mate's dad interviewed Grumpy Lou once for some publication in the 70's. He walked out fairly early on, after being told that one of his songs resembled someone else's, saying he had no influences.

You've got me wrong there Clive. It wasn't about you at all. And I was not listening to it in an ironic way; I have no time for that so-bad-it's-good nonsense or 'secretly' enjoying stuff that you 'know you shouldn't like'. I like early Genesis, have done since about 77 when I first bought some. Not anything mentioned in the other post above though, Sussudio and all that crap. Don't care what anyone else thinks; I could, but mercifully won't, put up a defence of their 70's stuff. Don't need to drop the names of hipper or more obscure bands I like to prove anything. I only mentioned it as a counter point to Vice which sounds like it concerns itself with the up to date.
Perhaps I was being ironic; I've heard a lot of members don't get it. ;)

I don't mind what people like. If you enjoy early Genesis, enjoy it. My objection is to people who feign enjoyment of music or other culture, whether it be opera or Pink Floyd simply because they feel they ought to and in so doing close their ears and their minds to other things that wuld actually inspire them.

In the early 70s at a grim boarding school not too far from where you grew up, listening to the VU was a lonely and much derided occupation. It has, however, sttod me in good stead. It prepared me for punk which came to life when I went to UCL in 1976 and it meant that my kids now know all the words to everything that VU, The Clash and the Ramones ever sang which, apparently, counts for something in teen hipsterdom.

Pfff! Ageing hipsters... Worse than the young 'uns! And The Stooges beat The Velvets in a fight, any day of the week... Pfff! (again, just for emphasis)

The Stooges were brilliant. I saw Iggy in 1977. Wonderful. But the Velvets had more depth - and not so much peanut butter.

Hobo

as soon as i posted that extra b popped into my head and i thought.. fuck it. which cunt will notice....

answered that one!

Lou Reed said a couple of years back that Metal Machine Music was his big 'fuck you' to RCA, who were holding him to contractual obligations when he wanted to join Clive Davis's new label, Arista. The man himself has since disowned it as unlistenable...

Clive; I went to UCL in 83 so how can you now be more than ten years older than me?

Will you must have been very young! A prodegy.

I left school in 1975 aged 17 but had turned 19 just before I went to UCL in 1976 after a gap year spent working in London. Born Sept 1957. 51 last month.