Training Advice

Or the other option is if you think it will mess with your taper just dont do that event!

In fact its quite useful to be able to have a hard race/training session a week out from main event some times.

Thanks.

dino: I never said no to speed work during the winter but my coaching advice was along the lines of "try not to go into the red while in an aerobic build phase, save it for the later stages of training". I always had trouble slowing down during early season training - and I think the idea is that this was hampering my ability to do the latter stages to the best of my (limited but it's all relative) ability. That's whole base building phase that a lot of coaches talk of. ie. If you don't build a solid base you can't complete the speed/strength work to the fullest extent later.
I can only say that I improved with coaching, so why wouldn't I use this advice. Of course, having a coach is a motivator in itself and it could be this that provides the improvement.
Also, I last raced a sprint event 3+ years ago and now ride much slower and longer stuff so my training has changed quite a bit, although the principles used by the two coaches seem to be the same.

How do you vary the intensity of your (or your rider's) training over the year? You must allow for recovery so do you just have shorter cycles of build/rest, build/rest, etc all year? What are the length of the cycles? Is there no sustained period of lower intensity riding?

I'm not arguing with you it's all healthy debate in my mind. Yes I am big enough.. cue the fat jokes :P

Basically, how much time do you spend >95% max during what I would call the off season (winter)?
I was under the impression that going above >95% max during aerobic base phase, at least too often, was a bad thing?

Hey Hippy

it would really help if you could give me an idea of what you are training for?

Eg what kind of races and what events and when are they?

Lee

well it's 500 metres to the offy and another 250 metres to the kebab shop for hippy - think he's looking to improve his point-to-point time so he can achieve the full loop during an ad break

Hey Hippy
it would really help if you could give me an idea of what you are training for?
Eg what kind of races and what events and when are they?
Lee

Sportives. Tour of Ireland would be a nice little main event for next year.
This year was Londres-Paris. I'm not racing any more. I used to race mostly crits.

I'm not really after advice for me.. unless it's contradicting my coach.. which this might be.. in which case I'd like to ask her about it and get her opinion.

well it's 500 metres to the offy and another 250 metres to the kebab shop for hippy - think he's looking to improve his point-to-point time so he can achieve the full loop during an ad break

That is so true it's not funny. :)

Is using Live Pause on a Sky box as bad as doping?

Ok well my advice to you Hippy would be go out and ride your bike lots lol! As thats what is really needed for sportives, however when I was questioning some of your earlier posts it was because the original poster had asked for advice on training for track racing and I did not believe yours or wayfers posts answered this.

A rider I was coaching for track would have at least one speed or hard session a week for most of the year, however this would be different things depending on time of year and what training phase we were in. For some one who wanted to do well at a local track league I would coach them pretty much like a kilo rider. So half there training would be like a sprinter the other half like an endurance trackkie.

The base block as you call it would be about 4/6 weeks long and come immediately after their season break of 10-14 days of total rest, then i would still have aerobic development rides in their program but i would also have a weekly session or two from the following, intervals(of varying distance and recovery), over geared starts or force production efforts, rev outs and sprint efforts on a turbo or track/quiet road. I would also inc a gym program which would match what their were doing on the bike, eg a conditioning gym work out with medium weights at 8/10 reps with little rest moving past a strength phase with heavy weights and longer rest to an explosive phase with lost of rest and light weights moved explosively. However I keep a small element of all there in every gym program, so one strength maintenance element in the explosive phase and one plyo element in the strength phase.

I don't know why a lot of coaches and riders think they shouldn't have intense work outs in the winter(apart from making sure u are warm enough to train hard/explosively) as long as the rider has enough fitness carry over from the base block and last season and you have regular rest days and blocks of reduced training loads or a say a week with just easy road the rider will be fine.

However with this approach the need is there for regular contact between rider and coach, I insist on at least two calls a week and weekly completed training diary. Within this approach a rider should reach the season well prepaid for the racing to come and should have that initial shock that a lot of riders get first few races of the season. Also as you have done a lot of quality training you can ease the training off a touch and use the races as high quality training sessions rather than having to do lots of training between races as you feel you need to catch up after a winter of slow steady rides....which is why a lot of riders who do just long road rides burn out at the end of the season.

If I was coaching a new rider I would follow a similar pattern with just a reduced load and work a lot on pedaling technique and tactics. At the end of the day my belief is if you train hard you can race easy and there is plenty of room in a program to train hard and intensely in the winter while still maintaining aerobic development and having enough rest.

A few words in my defence.

Babydinotrackboy seems to have sensed the presence of a dinosaur and fired off a shock and awe barrage without really considering what I was saying and the context in which I was saying it. Some points:

1. I was not attempting some holy writ,engraved in stone training doctrine. Iwas responding to the first post of this thread which came from someone who appeared not to have a very strong background in cycling. My actual recommendations were: a. join a club, and b. *consider *time trialling. The suggestion of 5000 miles a year seems quite modest to me.
   
   

2.The modern technique. The first thing I said here was that it worked - see the Olympic results! When I said the majority of races had been won in the past using the old method I was careful to add that this might not be so in the future. I admit I could have put this a little more strongly.

1. Expense. Nearly all modern methods involve some expense- gym subscriptions, special equipment (e.g. SRM cranks), travel to distant velodromes etc. The cheapest form of training is to open your front door and ride away - on a basic fixed hweel bike.

2. Maintaining interest. I wasn't advocating doing endless laps of Regents Park, or commuting up and down the Western Avenue. At least some of the riding needs to be done in good company and on interesting roads. I hope my Saturday Chiltern rides might make a tiny contribution here.

Hey Wayfarer,

I considered very carefully what you were saying and just decided much of it wasn't great advice, especially considering what the original poster had been requesting and your negative view of intelligent training(what you refer to as the modern approach). My response was certainly not one of shock and awe.

The poster asked for advice on track training and what would be the best use of his time, your reply of lots of miles just riding was not a best use of his time if he wants to be competitive.

Your rather negative view of what you call the modern approach was also I believe misleading, please read my posts above and tell me apart from the gym membership what will be so expensive?! and my gym work involves free weights so they don't need to use some swanky posh fitness center, my local gym is £3 a time so hardly super expensive!

None of the riders i currently coach use computers, srm cranks or any other expensive techno wizardry, yet they have been European or National championship medalists and winners, in fact they don't even use heart monitors. 90% of their training is done on the road on track bikes and most of the time they visit a track is just to race. Sure we could use these things and I am sure they will when they start full time with the GB squad but this does not mean you have to. I notice you didn't reply to when I said I thought a more varied program would be more fun as opposed to your view that modern training didn't sound fun!

My guess is you haven't tired other forms of training than lots of miles and therefore think its the best way to train.

Oh and I would be surprised if any of the guys I coach hit 5000miles last year, I know I certainly didn't and we are talking about some of the UK's best track racers here, so once again I feel that is rather misleading especially to state to a rider who is new to the sport that they are not training properly if they do less than that supposed minimum figure you quote.

As for your view about people winning races with what you call the traditional training approach, I doubt anyone has used that approach to win anything of note in the past 20 plus years, and if they did it was because they were very gifted athletes who would have preformed better still with more thought to their approach.

Please don't take this as some form of personal attack, I am merely stating what I believe to be true based on years of coaching and racing experience and through my involvement with various GB squads and athletes.

However I do agree with your suggestion of joining a club and that a great one can change your life and also that not everyone is physically suited to track racing (although I am sure they would still enjoy it).

You are of course entitled to your view and entitled to question mine. Just as if you post your view on a forum I am entitled to question it and offer a different view.

Best wishes Lee

I was merely doubting the suggestion of "very high intensity" training during winter. I guess I was coming at it from more of roadie viewpoint where smashing out maximum efforts that early in 'the season' is usually frowned upon in favour of lowER intensity base work.

Appreciate your advice as I'm sure others do.. like RPM.. who's frantically taking notes for his hour of power sessions at RP :)

"hour of power" !
excellent.

despite the fact that Lee coaches athletes of a far higher ability, I may still be hitting him up for information in the future. As I will anyone else with experience.

Hey Hippy,

I appreciate what your are saying about coming from a roadie point of view but I questioned it as the original start of this thread was about training for track racing. Sure if you are doing road you need a bigger road base and far more endurance training, however I think you will still find the better riders mix in some form of intervals and sprint training in the off season.

Of course you can over do high intensity work just as you can long distance endurance work, its all about making sure the rest is enough to recover. This doesn't mean you cannot do high intensity work all year round tho apart from the periods I have mentioned in previous posts.

And thank you for appreciating what I have posted, I love this sport and I am very happy to pass on what little knowledge I have built up. I hate seeing riders going around in circles unsure of how to train.

Lee

Actually I also coach riders who just want to do sportives/get fitter/lose weight and another guy who's main aim is to not get dropped at the local track league. I have been lucky enough to coach some highly talented individuals but I get as much pleasure helping someone with more modest goals or talents achieve their aims too.

More info here

www.performancecyclecoaching.com

oops shameless plug!!

I get as much pleasure helping someone with more modest goals or talents achieve their aims too.
that's what it's all about IMO

I think you will still find the better riders mix in some form of intervals and sprint training in the off season.

I agree. I love my weekly turbo sessions in winter.. not :)

I have completely neglected any sprint training, since I'm not racing and focused more on longer, say, 1hr TT efforts. Seeing how long I can sustain certain wattage for (I use a Powertap now). I still did shorter interval stuff but no regimented high gear hill sprints or high cadence drills like I used to. I don't see much point for sportives. For track, sure.

"I hate seeing riders going around in circles unsure of how to train." - which is why I got myself a coach. To anyone out there who wants to take their cycling a bit more seriously I highly recommend a coach over any bit of electronics you might be considering.

More info here
www.performancecyclecoaching.com
oops shameless plug!!

SPAMMER! SPAMMER! Stone him!!!! ;-)

You coach runners as well?

More info here

www.performancecyclecoaching.com

oops shameless plug!!

Oh, you are Lee Povey.

Catch up, Ant. Everyone has known babydinotrackboy is Lee Povey since a cheesecake scoffing and single malt downing library assistant with a 'fixie' destroyed him on the rollers last Xmas (cue Wham!).

I'm not only slow of legs, but also of brain.

Try taking me on in real racing cheesecake boy!!! (He Has a point tho, he schooled me on the rollers)

Thats why I keep bringing the guys I train to win it for me...

and yes Hippy I coach athletes from a few different sports in strength and conditioning

I'd be happy to race you up anything steeper than 5%, but I'd hate to see a grown man cry, especially one of your stature.

Six weeks of track-specific training, and I'd take you in the sprint omnium as well :p

Now pass me the cheesecake and a dram of Ardbeg Renaissance...