2008-09-14 - Rider Down/Fatality x 2

I agree with the notion of getting a petition together, especially as most cycle lines are full of holes. It is dangerous out there and if enough people make their voices heard perhaps improvements will be made. People new to the site should be asked to sign said petition and it constantly grows. Just have to define the 'We the undersigned bit...'

Damn shame and frankly terrifying. He didn't even leave the cycle lane?

There's roads round here I hate riding and try to avoid, and am really grateful for the plentiful quiet country lanes

there is no reason HGV's need to be in central london. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

In a way the congestion charging is reducing the numbers - forcing late night deliveries, mail order and consolidation of deliveries to cut the trucks. don't think we can get away from it completely but the numbers should drop!

In a way the congestion charging is reducing the numbers - forcing late night deliveries, mail order and consolidation of deliveries to cut the trucks. don't think we can get away from it completely but the numbers should drop!

No it hasnt, in fact the opposite is true. Also dont forget about the LLRS; http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/LLCS-WP4-Final-Project-Report.pdf

Those figures are over a short period, and I guess neither the BBC, mayoral office or TFL have enough data to show patterns that exclude the climb in the economy that has increased the demand for good and subsequent deliveries. so maybe the rise was less than it could have been. i guess time will tell.

it's an interesting doc. i never knew about the LLRS. good work Man

i'm pretty sure being a cyclist makes you better driver too. or at least a driver who's more aware of what a cyclist is likely to do.

i remember my driving lessons and my instructor teaching me things like how to "talk to other drivers with the position of your car" and "always expect the worst". that's got a lot of value in the world of cycling in traffic i think.

to be honest i do i under and overtake lorries BUT

BUT BUT BUT

only if i'm pretty sure (you do a quick internal risk assesment always right?) if there's room and they're not going to move. i take into account the lights, the other traffic at the junction, is it still moving? blocking the path of the lorry? is there a filter? has the other traffic stopped? and if so why? pedestrians crossing? you also take into account the length of the queue at the lights which tells you something about how long they've been waiting you take into account which way they're positioned themsleves. subtle things like this all make a difference. AND

AND AND AND

i only then go for it if there is an escape route should the quick internalised risk assesment turn out to have been misguided. i.e. i'll only do it if i can see that should the lorry unexpectedly turn in on me there is somewhere to hurl myself out of the way.

having said that i've arrived at work with a bruised shoulder or elbow from cutting it too fine more than once.

and of course freak accidents do happen to the most careful of riders and drivers. and people driving (especially in london) do do horribly unpredictable things like suddenly lose patience and throw a violent u-turn without looking behind them (nearly took me out on the way home last night) and narrowly overtake cyclists only to slamm on the brakes and turn off left right in your path nearly taken me out on several occasions on park lane).

it terrifies me how many people don't take into account cyclists (or motor bikes) when crossing the road. so many times people assume that if the main flow of traffic is stopped on the side of the road nearest to them it's ok to step out without looking. even if no-one's coming up the inside they'll so often step into the middle of the road looking to their left to scope out the opposite lane and appear in front of OVERtaking bikes and motorbikes. whilst looking completely the wrong way. happens to me pretty much every day.

sorry. ranted off topic a bit there. swam 3k, rode home then had a couple of beers with no dinner.

really saddedned to hear about yet more avoidable carnage on the roads. it's beena bad week for it.

a

I know this is probably counter productive and all but I had to do something. Sent this via TFL's cycling contact link

As someone died having to swerve around one of the many sunken drain covers/pieces of debris that litter our 'cycle' lanes today*. Don't you think it's about time that something is done about the disgusting state they are in?

I really don't want to have to start driving my car into work again just to stay alive.**

Regards

• Lower Thames street person moving to the right hand edge of a cycle lane gets sucked under a lorry.
  
  

** The trains are worse than the roads so my choice is bike or car.

Feel free to shoot me down but I'm fairly convinced that being a driver makes you a 'safer' cyclist. I say 'safer' because safer can mean several things. More cautious? More aware? More confident? Take your pick. Might have to think it through some more, but I'm sure there's a link. Of course there are plenty of shit drivers, so it's not a rule by any means.

It's logical isn't it? If you've operated more than one vehicle on the road you have experience with the pitfalls of each, ie. you know where blindspots are, have a grasp of how fast/slow they can accelerate etc.

This is very true. I am qualified to, and have, driven everything from artic lorries through motorbikes down to cycles around the country, continent and London (which can be considered in my opinion to be it's own seperate entity). I consider myself to be aware of all other drivers, their view of the road, and how they are driven, and therefore can appreciate what each is thinking and how they are driving. This DOES NOT mean everyone has the same view and just because a cyclist can anticipate what a driver is about to, doesn't mean a driver can anticipate the actions of a cyclist, or even has looked in the appropriate places to have seen him/her.

I'm not defending blasay (sp?) drivers, just saying that we, as cyclists, should be aware that drivers do things without fully thinking or looking. And since we will always come off worse, we should always be prepared for and anticipate dickheads doing dickhead things.

blase (with an acute over the e. alt =130 i think. maybe 120.) can't do it on this stupid paptop.

This is very true. I am qualified to, and have, driven everything from artic lorries through motorbikes down to cycles around the country, continent and London (which can be considered in my opinion to be it's own seperate entity). I consider myself to be aware of all other drivers, their view of the road, and how they are driven, and therefore can appreciate what each is thinking and how they are driving. This DOES NOT mean everyone has the same view and just because a cyclist can anticipate what a driver is about to, doesn't mean a driver can anticipate the actions of a cyclist, or even has looked in the appropriate places to have seen him/her.

I'm not defending blasay (sp?) drivers, just saying that we, as cyclists, should be aware that drivers do things without fully thinking or looking. And since we will always come off worse, we should always be prepared for and anticipate dickheads doing dickhead things.

Honestly, I thought i'd try the quiet route through Walthamstow into the city on monday. Didn't anticipate that the driver would not look in my direction before pulling out of the side road across (into) me. Should have seen it happening and though the driver is clearly in the wrong, I didn't do anything to help myself and thus ended up sliding over her bonnet and off the other side. I've been cycling since I was 4 and would consider myself to have good road sense, sometimes though, we have accidents.

:(

ah, cheers dooks

Sorry to hear that Hammo.
Sounds like you are shaken but OK, what about the bike?
:)

hope you're okay dude, and put several dents in his bonnet/side panel

I avoid Lorries and Buses like the plague, Have no trust whatsover just stay away..and some so called bike lanes are a fucking disgrace. If people are to be encouraged to use them the least they can expect is them to be well maintained and protected for sole use of the cyclist. People should be fined as they would in a Bus lane. RIP those poor people and families getting fed up with the amount of goast bikes i see more and more.

it concerns me that people on here say things implying the cyclist is dangerous.

how can that be ?

cyclists very rarely kill.

lorries are dangerous. they kill. they are the problem not cyclists.

for example many of these lorries are invloved in muck away and concrete in for basement car parks. that is danger to encourage more danger.

that is not right and it is a policy that needs changing. no more basement car parks.

i believe that this point has been picked up by bill at moving target.

but yeah very sad news.

i think we should ask velocity boy to develop the rider down threads.

so that every time a rider is down / killed an email goes to every london mp or somert.

anybody got any other thoughts / ideas ?

has vb got any thoughts ?

do we know what lcc do ?

i think we should ask velocity boy to develop the rider down threads.

so that every time a rider is down / killed an email goes to every london mp or somert.

anybody got any other thoughts / ideas ?

has vb got any thoughts ?

do we know what lcc do ?

It's a good idea! or we could all write emails so that the numbers are greater!

I was thinking about this. Went on Number10's website and you can create an e-petition with its own URL. Maybe we could set one up and include the URL on the registration page for new members? If they want to sign up it'd only take 10 seconds. Or maybe a sticky thread in one of the forums? Here's an example. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/ It'll probably do fuck all but it's something at least. It's a good cause and LFGSS has quite a few members.

More topical example.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/motorcycleman/

Approximately 1.30 yesterday I was riding east down Kenny high Street and I saw what looked like a fold-up bike in a pool of blood. Traffic filth had the area cordend off, they said the rider is "alive" but I don't know how severe the incident was.

All I know is ther was a mountain bike with snapped seat stays and bent forks in a pool of blood. I hope the rider is OK.

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread10601.html

Ah, I knew it was a late post but in thought of the victim.....

hmm .... not getting a lot of interest......

Out today and winced everytime a big trunk went past

I went down lower thames st yesterday. I'm not easily shaken but I was the world's most careful cyclist! I realised this probably made me more dangerous but I couldn't go anywhere near a lorry!