Skidding: difference between track and road frame

I'm curious about the ease of skidding on a road frame and track frame, when I had my road bike conversion, I couldn't do skid for the life of me, even after adding a decent gear ratio, it was nigh on impossible, and decided that I simply lack the skill to skid on a fixed wheel bicycle.

that is, until I sold the bike for a track bike.

within five minutes, and quite by accident I must add, I just let out a tiny skid when slowing down for a traffic light in clapham (was cycling the new bike back to Wimbledon with a NoBrake), even on a rather high gear ratio (16/48), by the time I got a 19t cog it's bloody easy.

I thought it's just my bike, being a peugeot with standard tubing and relaxed geomity, but I heard the same story with other people who built a road bike fixed wheel conversion.

Why exactly is it harder to skid on a road frame? is there any logical explantion for that?

I've got a really old framed conversion with a stupidly low BB at the mo (am looking into track frames), i can skid on it, though it is a lot of effort. I'd imagine that having a higher BB would make the riding position easier to lock ur leg out - i find that im having to sit really low on the frame to get my braking leg at a 90 degree angle...
this is just a guess tho.

I disagree, I think it is a skill thing.

^ +1 higher BB.
Also shorter wheelbase.

because a track frame gives you super powers!

(but really it has to do with frame geometry)

throw up in a mug...drink it back up IMO.

utter shit, you can skid anything that has a fixed wheel

does it not have to do with your weight being more toward over the front wheel on a track bike
than a regular road frame. same as you will find it alot easier to skid with those silly bullhorn bars vs drops.

softer tyres

To clarify, thanks m a x:

utter shit, IF you can skid, you can skid anything that has a fixed wheel

I have no idea if this is correct, and maybe this is just a different way of saying what's above... But I always felt it's easier to skid if your stem/bars are more centred over your front hub, as they would be on a tight track bike, rather than having the weight further behind the hub as would happen on a more relaxed road bike. I wonder if there's any truth in that.

does it not have to do with your weight being more toward over the front wheel on a track bike
than a regular road frame. same as you will find it alot easier to skid with those silly bullhorn bars vs drops.

I did used to have bullhorn bars on the conversion - still sans skid.

It's down to skills.

I don't see how the shorter wheelbase answer works.

To make skidding easier less friction is required between road and tyre.

Friction is proportional to the force perpendicular to the surface.

On a really long wheel base bike, the reaction acting through the rear wheel is decreased and so it is easier to skid.

This can be seen by riding a tandem with on one on the back, you can skid really easy.

Using this we can say that it is actually easier to skid on a longer wheel base slack geometry road bike. So your inability to be able to skid your conversion was a skills thing.

+1

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqIqsftpsDI"]YouTube
- Fixed Mag Party: Skid Comp - Tommy[/ame]

yes but it was a bit alarming to immediately be able to skid on the track bike a day after selling the road conversion, it's too much of an coincidence to imply it's down to skill, some of you says that the higher BB could've been a reason.

Skidding is a bit like riding a bike... but to a stand still.

yes but it was a bit alarming to immediately be able to skid on the track bike a day after selling the road conversion.

Maybe you were so stoked to have a track bike you went balls-out.

I've always found it way easier to skid track bikes than road frames. Steeper head angle probably means its easier to get your weight over the front wheel which will lighten the rear wheel. Even if you aren't leaning way forward you will have more weight pushing over the front axle.

ha
skills all the way

+1 for balls out. I could 'suddenly' do stairs more easily when I put my tough deep section wheels on.

Those marathon plus make skidding interesting, first time after fitting them, nearly ripped my legs of, those things are grippy.

I've always found it way easier to skid track bikes than road frames.

pretty much my view, the track frame made it a lots easier to skid even with high gear ratio.

Tommy - I think it is more complex:
1) Shorter wheelbase would make it easier to unweight the rear wheel, as you do not need to move your weight as far for an equal reduction in normal (perpendicular) force.
2) if you use a front brake to initiate a skid, then the moment (around the front wheel contact patch) will lift the rear wheel more easily with a shorter wheelbase - because the centre of mass is closer (further forward) than for a longer wheelbase... roight?
The tandem thing occurs because the lack of stoker means the centre of mass is much further forward than otherwise..
Please excuse my a-level physics thought-experiment jibberish.

yes but it was a bit alarming to immediately be able to skid on the track bike a day after selling the road conversion, it's too much of an coincidence to imply it's down to skill, some of you says that the higher BB could've been a reason.

Why is is it to much of a coincidence? That is how learning something works, you struggle for ages at what seems an impossible task then you get it once, then twice then it becomes easy.

The coincidence argument is how cults get started.

Degree level engineering would suggest the only things that could make any difference are chainstay length, so where you foot weight is with reference to the back wheel, and top tube (plus stem) length, where your hand weight is, other than that is down to you, and I think those things could make nominal difference, when compared to body movement.

It's not coincidence though, you can only put a certain amount of force down on the 2 wheels which will always be the same unless you loose weight in your body. The things that will make it easier are transfering more of that weight onto the front wheel, which is easier to do on a shorter wheelbase with steeper angles e.g. a track frame.