Stolen Bike London To The Next level

By the same token I suppose getting killed or injured is an occupational hazard that we should 'solve' ourselves? I thought we were all in this together as cyclists?
I agree that rewards are probably counter-productive but well done VB for dismissing what for me would be a financial disaster as just an occupational hazard. Nothing like another cyclist to really ruin your day. I guess I should HTFU eh?

If I were a carpenter and my tools got stolen out of the van, it would be a financial disaster as I couldn't work. So should I have insured the tools? Or if that wasn't affordable come together with other carpenters to set up a pool of spare tools to insure ourselves collectively against the risk? Or perhaps set ourselves up under a shared company to increase the income, and reduce the VAT exposure, and thus spend the savings on collectively reducing the risk? Or perhaps unionise and demand higher wages for carpenters to offset the risk? Or continuously set aside money for replacements based on the probability that I might lose my tools once every 2 years?

I've no doubt it's a tough business and cut-throat with slim rewards. But the point I'm trying to make is simply that if your income depends on the charity of someone else, then something is wrong. Charity is only sticky-tape over a problem, and it would be better for you if instead of having to rely on charity that a more resilient and reliable solution be found to either reduce the risk or insure you against the risk.

What would you do if the pot of money donated only covered 2 bikes, and 3 were stolen and yours was last? If you relied on that money, you're fucked anyway. You can't rely on charity even if it's set up, so sort something else out and make sure it works.

?

Isn't this offering incentives to people to steal bikes owned by couriers? How is that helping?

And who is to say that if rewards were given that they should only be given to couriers? Others are very much dependent on their bicycle too. Not I sure, but I'm sure you can find people in London living in poverty and for whom a bicycle represents a great deal of their freedom. A courier is surely more likely to be able to cobble together a replacement than that person in poverty.

Besides, isn't it an occupational hazard? Surely that is up to couriers and their employers (if you're not self-employed) to solve?

Chris is doing something constructive,why knock it?From what I gather he used to be a courier,he knows that a lot of riders are fucked if their bike gets nicked.What's the problem?That everyone's fucked if their bike is nicked?Yeah of course!But not everyone works on it.Fight the good fight Chris.

Besides... if you pay people to return courier bikes. How is this not "paying people to take and return courier bikes"?

You have associated a reward (hard cash) with the return of something (a bike), and the only way to get the something to be able to return it for the reward is to steal it. Not so smart that.

Besides... if you pay people to return courier bikes. How is this not "paying people to take and return courier bikes"?

You have associated a reward (hard cash) with the return of something (a bike), and the only way to get the something to be able to return it for the reward is to steal it. Not so smart that.

This is the other side of the way i was looking at the problem. I saw it as people steal bike, people steal messeger's bikes, messengers need their bikes and it was a community i wanted to help support, and receive support from (ie messengers would be attending fundraisers) and that this should be rewarded, i see that VBs way here might be a better way of looking at it.

If i say community again for a week i want some one to hit me, hard.

Crash,

Schedule a meeting and set up a few points like yesterday and let the people come to help push this thing forward... worked yesterday... mikes approach: chuck it out there see who comes.

I personally think the data base its self needs looking at possible flickr group to search bikes? specific tagging etc. i can help admin this also in flickr you can link to locations

ok how about 2 weeks from today (because Dammit will be in wales next week) at the slaughtered lamb. start thinking about points to be made, and i'll bump the thread when we get closer.

(deal!) un deal fucks with my polo.

Possible sponsors? Bike lock companies, surely these fellas would want to help promote bike security, this could work both ways. They create awareness of bike theft (and what they sell), Chris gets cash to move this organisation forward. Jury still out on the reward scheme at the mo, wouldn't the LCEF help out a messenger in need anyway, or are they more for messengers involved in accidents so can't work?

I'll be there and I'm willing to help.

If you need any more stuff on the look of the site I'm up for helping.

VB; it wasn't so much the content that annoyed me (I said I agree with you about not offering rewards) more the tone which seemed lacking in solidarity and understanding. But anyway this is not a courier forum - that's why LFGSS and MT are next to each other on my screen, so I can easily flit between the two - and I don't want to get into a dispute with you about courier matters and for us to end up, as Borges said, like two bald men arguing over a comb. all the best

Ah it's ok.

You know, on the ride home I thought of a better way of doing rewards.

The problem with what was proposed is that it is rewarding the criminals themselves or likely the associates of them. Which only encourages them.

Why not attack that problem, offer rewards (hopefully sponsored ones so that they can be substantial) to individuals who provide information that is critical to the police and justice system and that results in custodial sentences for those involved in bike crime.

Basically, instead of incentivising those involved, incentivise those around those involved to grass them up. It does happen, because they only need to piss someone off once and then they risk a knock on the door as their associate cashes in.

Under such a scheme you would have a focus for sponsorship money, as well as hopefully achieving more substantial press as a result of highlighting a problem in such a dramatic way.

kind of like CrimeStoppers? We could call it CrimeFixers.

Possible sponsors? Bike lock companies, surely these fellas would want to help promote bike security, this could work both ways. They create awareness of bike theft (and what they sell), Chris gets cash to move this organisation forward. Jury still out on the reward scheme at the mo, wouldn't the LCEF help out a messenger in need anyway, or are they more for messengers involved in accidents so can't work?

You are correct when you say the LCEF help out only injured couriers but we are still a young organisation.Maybe one day we'll be able to assist people who've had bikes stolen.

Thought as much, good work by the way, keep it up.

Chris, I'm quite good with website and computer stuff (the technical/programming end, my design skills are mundane) and it'd be happy to help. I have free webspace which we could use as a sandbox before we buy a domain.

I did have VB concerns but you said that you are happy to make it not courier-specific so that's cool.

On the other hand, there is a possible overlap with immobilise.com? How would this website be different?

People, likes I say, having survived bloody Liverpool, to loose my bike in my first 2 hours in London made my blood boil away into vapour -
Why the hell do we not have secure lock up bunkers we can rent by the week/month/year?
Letter to the bloody Mayor forthwith.
Ill share any replies here -
Also as a new citizen/victim in London, I am glad to see this websight, and certainly will do what I can to help repatriate any stolen bikes I may happen to see.
Best
Soren

Another thing - sending out texts to a network bikers to join a person at short notice - if their bike is spotted, or advertised for sale - the more people the better! Police dont care about bikes, they do care about public order - I read some poor girls story of how she tried to get the police to intercede when she arranged to meet the skull-fucker who was selling her bike - they of course didnt turn up, and the poor gal couldnt hold the fucker herself, so lost her bike twice! Man my blood is now plasma...

Soren (or Søren?), you could join the LCC if you want to do some campaigning on the issue: http://www.lcc.org.uk/.

There's still a lot of bike theft around, but the police are treating it much more seriously than before.

Sorry to hear that you were hit on so quickly.

There are also these threads:

http://www.lfgss.com/thread52193.html
http://www.lfgss.com/thread123.html

I hope these help. You can read up on what to do and post information about your stolen bike.

Oliver
LCC