Cycle accident on Holloway Road

i see to much bad shit happen on that road
ride safe people

Sparky - In Eilidh Cairns's inquest they suggested her death had something to do with clip on shoes and the fact that her bike was a fixed gear. They soon got off that topic. Coroner said 'she would never ride a bike like that'. Very judgmental without having tried it or researched it... Lots of grumbles around the court room were heard.

Well, if she only said that she'd never ride a bike like that, then fair enough. She's entitled to her opinion. Would be very odd to imply that such a thing was dangerous though, especially when hundreds of thousands of people around the world ride clipless.

I just meant that I worry about brakeless riders. Eventually there will be a death, whether it is due to the lack of brake or not, and it could become a hot topic like in Berlin or elsewhere.

I know some people are safer than others, don't mean to rake up that pointless old debate. Was just seeing mention of a lost mirror that made me think - if brakeless riding ever became a big issue, it could lead to problems for lots of people here.

brakeless riding in London is ridiculous

"Driver Lucian Damacus knew a front mirror, which enabled him to see directly in front of the vehicle, was missing".

Sounds like another avoidable death. Unintentional, but avoidable.

People need to be responsible for their own safety. You can't rely on other people for anything. Especially your life

brakeless riding in London is ridiculous

Never see anyone riding brakeless up my neck of the woods, I guess it's because we have hills!

He said the death of 64-year-old Lucy Pontecorvo happened while she was breaking the Highway Code by dodging traffic in Holloway Road, and questioned whether driver Lucian Damacus can be held responsible."

What? She was a foot-passenger at the time. It's not illegal to cross the street on foot. Is this an instance of victim-blaming or is there more information about what he's referring to?

People need to be responsible for their own safety. You can't rely on other people for anything. Especially your life

That's fucking helpful!

I'm sure a good flaming will commence, but I sometimes worry that I'll be reading a thread like this one day that says something about a cyclist death attributed to brakeless.

this is a legitimate concern, but this is not the place to discuss.

Oh, and what sort of sloppy reporting is the above? She was called Lisa Pontecorvo, not Lucy Pontecorvo.

I wouldn't see it as breaking the Highway Code but, alas, based on the information available, I think that Pontecorvo did contribute to the circumstances.

*"The judge said Damacus had a "duty of care to check all of the mirrors if he is turning or exacting a manoeuvre" but added: "This man was not exacting a manoeuvre at all. He was positioned appropriately in the road, at the correct speed, and he's presented with something he's no reason to think would happen."

The court heard Miss Pontecorvo was pushing her bike when she emerged from behind a green wheelie bin and started to cross in front of the lorry, which was stationary in traffic on Holloway Road during the evening rush-hour on September 8 2008.*"

I disagree that Damacus had no reason to think that this would happen. People regularly walk between stationary but active vehicles in traffic, especially in London. Under the circumstances and in the absence of a device that would allow him to see immediately it's hard to say what course of action he could be expected to take to ensure the safety of someone who may or may not be there. The fact that he chose to drive a vehicle without a legally required safety device is something that he should be prosecuted for, it's then a matter of how harshly he be punished for this.

However, it would appear that Pontecorvo entered a blind spot, from an obscured position, and placed herself in active traffic that was likely to move. It may not be illegal, but it certainly isn't safe.

^but if he had the legally required mirror, he would have seen her.

Absolutely, but I don't think that this fully mitigates Pontecorvo's actions, legal or otherwise. Certainly Damacus bears the majority of the contributory factors, but I think not all.

I don't really want to get too involved in this discussion however I was working less than 20m from the site of this accident when it happend and although I didn't witness the entire thing 3 of my coleagues did (1 being the first person on the scene) and the sound of it and the sight of the aftermath is something I'll never forget.
In my oppinion this was a tragic accident and nothing more and although the HGV didn't have the correct mirror the driver was no ogre and was only as negligent as I was this morning when while driving to work I didn't look over my shoulder when changin lanes I only checked my mirrors. Infact feel incredible sympathy for him I don't beleive with any amount of counciling a day will go past with out the effects of it living with him.

regardless it is a very sad story. myself and others know this part of holloway rd very well. it is a black spot for accidents, with several happening per year. lots of traffic, plus bike lane crossing, lots of dodgy stuff on both sides.

^but if he had the legally required mirror, he would have seen her.

Surely any road user has a responsibility to their own safety as well as the safety of other road users. In this case, yes, if the driver had the mirror he may have seen her, but she also had a responsibility to choose an appropriate place to cross the road and to be aware that traffic waiting in a queue may well start to move without warning.

^but if he had the legally required mirror, he would have seen her.

Possibly not. If you are in stationary traffic which is likely to move forward in a straight ahead direction, the obvious place to be looking is at the vehicle in front of you. You can have all the mirrors in the world fitted and every device possible to alert you to the presence of another moving or stationary object, and still have something like this happen. How many peds have stepped out in front of vehicles, including cyclists, and been hit? Who is to blame in all of these incidents? Just because she had a bike with her doesn't automatically put her in the right.

I'm not going to comment on the blame issue as I don't think it's appropriate in this, or any other case where we aren't qualified or informed enough to make such judgements. The only certain thing in any fatal incident is that it is a tragic loss of life and may they all rest in peace.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

The Lady had NOT run a red light. There is a fundamental flaw with the Fieldway cresent junction with where the trafic lights are placed on the Holloway Road and the delay they have..

@ tiles: I'm Interested to hear more about you thoughts on this crossing - I have been using it believing it safer then the dog-legged crossing at Drayton Park...

Had it been any other type of smaller vehicle, this would have been a perfectly safe place to cross. The driver would have seen her easily and allowed her time to cross. It's important to remember that most people don't know very much about blind spots on large vehicles* so would think that right in front of a lorry is as safe as right in front of a car.

I do wonder how it can be found that the driver was on the road illegally, and can not be found at least partly responsible.

*Basing this statement 100% on my own experiences.

the traffic gets stuck on the crossing when its busy, cyclists then try to weave through 4 lanes of traffic, when the lights are green or red. it doesn't take long for something to happen.

I do wonder how it can be found that the driver was on the road illegally, and can not be found at least partly responsible.

The charge being considered is causing death by dangerous driving. Basically the jury, or a judge for that matter, cannot return a verdict of "a little bit guilty". They also cannot, as is the case in some countries, return a verdict on a lesser charge.

The coroner can determine contribution to an accident. However, as a seperate court of law, the trial must then determine whether the driver was responsible for the death in a manner for which they should receive a punative sentence. In this instance it did not.

So the driver faces no punishment despite being found to be driving illegally?
If no accident had occurred and a hawk-eyed police officer just happened to notice the missing mirror then I imagine there would be some form of punishment, no?

Polky, it is ok but a lot of traffic is slow moving Nth on A1/Holloway Rd and will go through the lights while on green, they are then held up before they get to the point where they cross the cycle crossing meanwhile the lights will change to green for the bike lane and bikes starte to cross however the traffic going Nth are still under the impression they are clear to go and have a right of way.

This could be solved by extending the box junction and instaling a camera to enforce it and/or putting another traffic light on the same timing on the Nth corner of Madras Place.

Had it been any other type of smaller vehicle, this would have been a perfectly safe place to cross. The driver would have seen her easily and allowed her time to cross. It's important to remember that most people don't know very much about blind spots on large vehicles* so would think that right in front of a lorry is as safe as right in front of a car.

I do wonder how it can be found that the driver was on the road illegally, and can not be found at least partly responsible.

*Basing this statement 100% on my own experiences.

Pedestrian and cycle training should be compulsory at schools.

And it should include some 'real life' stuff... ie not just about the green cross / highway code, it should consider the reality that people do cross when they shouldn't but tell them when is safe and when is not.