Victoria Pendleton

*And yes I accept that doing what you love for a living must be wonderful; Its just that it doesn't appear to be a living.

*very well put sir

T..... de Pip

Yes, people always cite the Grande Boucle - but how many normal people have heard of that? And it gets zero mainstream media coverage. I didn't even know Emma Pooley had won it! Honestly, a British woman wins the equivalent of the TdF and nobody bothers to report it - a British man comes fourth in le Tour and we're all falling over ourselves. (It was the same back when Nicole Cooke won it.)

And why couldn't women ride the same course as the men, on the same days, perhaps starting an hour later or something? Would that cause any logistical problems? (Genuine question - I haven't really thought this through before.)

To be fair, the Grand Boucle isn't the biggest race in women's cycling by some margin. It's suffered from a lack of sponsorship for some time and has gradually diminished in it's prestige as a result.

Races like the Giro Donne and the Tour de l'Aude are much more prestigious now, but even then suffer from sponsorship problems. I'm afraid that women's cycling doesn't get the media interest required to make it viable in the way that men's racing does. Which is a shame as the Women's World Championship road race in Varese last year was one of the most exciting races I've ever seen.

And yes I accept that doing what you love for a living must be wonderful; Its just that it doesn't appear to be a living.

very well put sir

T..... de Pip

I got into trouble for toodlepipping, so (difficult though it was) I gave up.

T..........

doodle dipping?

I got into trouble for toodlepipping, so (difficult though it was) I gave up.

T..........

Toodle pip to 'toodle pip', then.

Yes, people always cite the Grande Boucle - but how many normal people have heard of that? And it gets zero mainstream media coverage. I didn't even know Emma Pooley had won it! Honestly, a British woman wins the equivalent of the TdF and nobody bothers to report it - a British man comes fourth in le Tour and we're all falling over ourselves. (It was the same back when Nicole Cooke won it.)

**And why couldn't women ride the same course as the men, on the same days, perhaps starting an hour later or something? Would that cause any logistical problems? **(Genuine question - I haven't really thought this through before.)

Good points, I didn't see a single article about Emma's win either.
To be fair though even Brad and Cav only get tiny articles written in the mainstream papers.

Women could ride in the men's time trial stages, with a handicap on the times to make it equal, but in flat stages or mountains it wouldn't work.

Sometimes in a stage race if there is a very strong crosswind (like there was in this years tdf) it makes chasing a breakaway group impossible, so if you had a peloton of women a few minutes up the road they would win by default.

On the other hand, a very strong headwind would play into the mens groups' hands and they could pull the women back well before the finish.

A bit unfair in both situations.

My take on this depends on your definition of 'equality'. I can appreciate the many physical differences, but the reason women's sport lags behind in so many areas is because while boys have this thrust upon them at school, girls only tend to take up the less traditional sports later in their lives. At that point, the boys have many years of development behind them. It doesn't mean boys are necessarily better, more that they've had more of an opportunity to develop those skills over the years.

Can Pendleton ever beat Hoy? Can Radcliffe or Ndereba ever beat Tergat or Wanjiru? Probably not, but that's not the point...

It's not 'equality' to thrust women into sport at the same level, or in the case of some of the suggestions above, on the same playing field. Different sports have different merits - I know that I prefer watching women's tennis because it's based much more on brute power in the men's game (although some, like Federer, seem to be bucking that trend), whereas the women's game is more about skill.

In another area of my work, I get people trying to use positive action approaches, such as getting women into non-traditional roles, or people from a black background into management. These projects tend to miss the point entirely. You can't resolve 20-30 years' lack of opportunity with a positive action scheme that lasts a fraction of the time. The inequalities have to be addressed at the source. Instead of making girls play netball and boys football, you need to let people make their own choices. Maybe a female footballer will never be as powerful as a male, but if they've been playing since a young age, and have a considerable talent, there will be elements of their style that will set them apart in their own right.

I prefer watching women's tennis because it's based much more on brute power in the men's game (although some, like Federer, seem to be bucking that trend), whereas the women's game is more about skill.

So that's why the women's final at Wimbledon was contested by two huge body builders. The women's game may have been more entertaining when played by less powerful contestants, but it will be dominated by big powerful women as long as there are some of sufficient skill available.

Tennis seems to be an oddity, being the only major sport where women attract more or less equal media coverage and equal prize money to the men. If other sports are minded to build up their respective female competitions to equal status, they probably need to learn some lessons from tennis.

So that's why the women's final at Wimbledon was contested by two huge steroid/HGH/insulin/test munching body builders. The women's game may have been more entertaining when played by less powerful contestants who weren't doped up with enough gear to kill a small horse, but it will be dominated by big powerful barely female women with more testosterone in one booby than Chuck Norris has in both testicles. as long as there are some of sufficient skill available.

Tennis seems to be an oddity, being the only major sport where women attract more or less equal media coverage and equal prize money to the men. If other sports are minded to build up their respective female competitions to equal status, they probably need to learn some lessons from tennis.

Fixed ;)

Fixed ;)

That would be your dream, wouldn't it. remembers the body building site and the ladies...

Nope lol, not at all, and anyways I was on there purely for the powerlifting and supplement forums!

And not masturbating over the women? :) I remember the browsing history on my PC...

tricity - that point you made about body image is really interesting, a couple of my female friends used to swim at quite a high level but gave it up because they didn't want to get MASSIVE shoulders. Also I know quite a few lady rugby players and they too are often put off by the change in physique if they are lucky enough to become a forward ;)

I get 'wow, don't you have really manly thigh muscles from cycling all the time?' on a regular basis.

"No, I have enormous legs because because I eat a lot of snickers"

I get 'wow, don't you have really manly thigh muscles from cycling all the time?' on a regular basis.

Do you not, though? I fuckin' do :D

The key is not to give a shit.

That would be your dream, wouldn't it. remembers the body building site and the ladies...

The stubble and adams apple on those women has nothing to do with steroids :p

I get 'wow, don't you have really manly thigh muscles from cycling all the time?' on a regular basis.

I think some pictures are in order for, err, crazyjames.

Do you not, though? I fuckin' do :D

The key is not to give a shit.

Yeah I'm well proud of them.

Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation - barriers to women's participation

The body image thing is pretty major, it stops a ridiculous percentage of teenage girls partaking in sports and a lot of them just don't start again.

+1

I have two daughters, 13 and 10 both swim, do athletes, play musical instruments guitar / clarinet, go to dance classes, girl guides, both want to act on stage in our theatre group, both want to be volunteers at 2012 Olympics.

Why?

Because we have nutured them, so that they can both find their own way, the teenage years will be a departure for some activities, but as parents we want both to think about what inspires them.. is it Dame Kelly Holmes or Stella McCartney? Zaha Hadid or Amy Winehouse?

one will end up an architect like me, studying hard for little pay or recognition.. the other a rich man's wife living in St Tropez, big house, small dog, designing clothes / shoes.. we will see.

The media have ruined the lives of too many talented young women, Victoria Pendleton needs to find purpose after cycling, not as a pin up princess.. and certainly not having to compete with men.. to get recognition.

+1

I have two daughters, 13 and 10 both swim, do athletes, play musical instruments guitar / clarinet, go to dance classes, girl guides, both want to act on stage in our theatre group, both want to be volunteers at 2012 Olympics.

Why?

Because we have nutured them, so that they can both find their own way, the teenage years will be a departure for some activities, but as parents we want both to think about what inspires them.. is it Dame Kelly Holmes or Stella McCartney? Zaha Hadid or Amy Winehouse?

one will end up an architect like me, studying hard for little pay or recognition.. the other a rich man's wife living in St Tropez, big house, small dog, designing clothes / shoes.. we will see.

The media have ruined the lives of too many talented young women, Victoria Pendleton needs to find purpose after cycling, not as a pin up princess.. and certainly not having to compete with men.. to get recognition.

Super-repped.

There's nothing like a healthy dose of informed practical reality to bring a smile to my face...

I don't even think it's the media's fault, necessarily, or exclusively. Little girls are encouraged from every angle to carefully construct, and then to value, their femininity above all other virtues. It doesn't matter if they're brainy, or sporty, or musical: everything available to them is branded as pink, and sparkly, and princessy, and girly. When I was a kid you could at least be a tomboy; I'm not sure that they even exist anymore. Now it's all wee girls with playboy pencil cases. Who's really surprised when young women turn out to care so intensely, and so exclusively, about the way they look? The world does, too.

I don't even think it's the media's fault, necessarily, or exclusively. Little girls are encouraged from every angle to carefully construct, and then to value, their femininity above all other virtues. It doesn't matter if they're brainy, or sporty, or musical: everything available to them is branded as pink, and sparkly, and princessy, and girly. When I was a kid you could at least be a tomboy; I'm not sure that they even exist anymore. Now it's all wee girls with playboy pencil cases. Who's really surprised when young women turn out to care so intensely, and so exclusively, about the way they look? The world does, too.

agree about the sparkly, princessy and girly bit.. mine have traded in their plastic guns and darth vader suit / lightsabres for makeup.. young Syke Walker has become Paris Hilton over night, i shouldn't have got that cute baby rabbit, rather more ammo.. swallows and amazons beckons this summer..

I get 'wow, don't you have really manly thigh muscles from cycling all the time?' on a regular basis.

is that from men or wimmen? i would have thought most men would consider them attractive (i know i do*) but perhaps not to other females?

*female cyclists legs with a bit of tone to them, not anyone's in particular

agree about the sparkly, princessy and girly bit.. mine have traded in their plastic guns and darth vader suit / lightsabres for makeup.. young Syke Walker has become Paris Hilton over night, i shouldn't have got that cute baby rabbit, rather more ammo.. swallows and amazons beckons this summer..

Must be a nightmare being a parent these days. My Mum & Dad were old hippies who wouldn't have let us anywhere near make-up or fashion, but then I suspect the world was a bit more forgiving to little girls without the right clothes and stuff in the eighties.