Police spotting (junction watch)

When the head of the Met states that its' only povo's who cycle, it's clear which group of road users they are motivated to assist.

Well I'd like to drive a car and be stuck in traffic with all the other schmucks, but I can barely afford to keep myself in merino.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3933789.ece

The Times has seen an e-mail from a senior police officer sent on the day of the last death urging all traffic police in his area to target cyclists.

“All, can you please cascade this onto your troops,” the e-mail from Inspector Colin Davies of the Metropolitan Police’s South East Area Traffic Garage, began. “Officers have four months to do 40 cycle tickets. Ten per month, 2.5 a week. Most officers are nearing or have even achieved their other targets. This will give them a renewed focus for a while.”

Serving officers said that the request amounted to “discrimination” against cyclists, and questioned how issuing £50 fines against cyclists would help to save lives.

The show of force is so they can meet their ten-a-month targets, once these are achieved you wont see them again until the start of the next period. Disgusting discrimination.

9:20(ish), New Oxford Street, the Junction before centre point going west. Load of cyclists bunched up at the red light before the second set of reds for the turn onto Tottenham Court Road. Coppers in high-vis all over this mess of a junction, as they have been all week. I join the rest of the riders at the first junction waiting at the red but a chap in a grey and dark blue/black cycling cap, thick grey beard, Mediterranean looking, plus earbuds rammed in both ears, jumps the lights right under their noses and gets pulled over at the next set.

Fair enough at these sets of lights when heavy traffic stretches from junction to junction I can, in the interest of honesty, admit to jumping occasionally, but you got caught out good and proper. Clearly not reading the road ahead - cyclists bunched up, everyone stopping at the red despite traffic ahead, coppers in high viz poking out behind buses, trees, vans, bins, bushes, police vans in cycle lanes, and the you cant be oblivious to the news that they are out in force. You sail past oblivious, jumping the lights you must so regularly do. I wish you had just committed and jumped the next set, sailing past the copper who jumped out and addressed you so rudely too. Sigh.

Further along up Hampstead Road, policeman stood next to his pretty motorbike ignores the HGV that pulls fully into the cycle box I am in, up to the next line, after the lights turn red. I block him in and shout for officers assistance, he looks at me disdainfully and turns away. He saw it, heard and saw me and ignored it. Sigh.

Copper at the main juncton in Brixton was having a stern word with one of the many, many motorists who drive down the right hand turn lane heading Northbound and then bully their way into the central/straight-on lane, which was a) a first and b) quite nice.

He then went and harangued a white Corsa driver for parking squarely in the ASL.

Saw a copper yesterday at the same junction giving a pedestrian a right mouthful.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3933789.ece

It's OK, it was a genuine misinterpretation. A corrected email has since been sent.

I supposed I shouldn't be surprised that some coppers are pretty selective as to how they choose to interpret instructions to them/the law/guidance.

Perhaps it's a 2 pronged approach - starting with cyclists.

I saw the cops talking to a scooter rider and a car driver last night. Although they didn't chase down the coach that steamed through a red light onto Hamstead rd.

I saw a guy at the junction by Angel giving a taxi driver a talking to for being inside the cycle zone, then went past me to bollock a moped who was about to go over the line. They're at most of the lights on Upper St.

What's the deal with hi-vis, can you get a fine for not having one?

no.

No you can't. They might recommend it, but there's no legal requirement to wear it.

Is this 10 fines a month PER OFFICER?

From the Times article above. Glyn Jones superintendent said 'offences that relate to the cycle highway and advanced stop lines can actually only be committed by motorists'

Does
this mean that we are technically allowed to cross the first ASL into a cycle box even if the lights are red?
If not, can someone put up a link to the where it says we cannot.

No you can't. They might recommend it, but there's no legal requirement to wear it.

How can a copper recommend something that has no legal basis and no proven benefit? I would ask if they suggested I wore a hi viz or helmet if it's their own opinion or what ... If they had been told to suggest this random opinion I would want to know by whom and would complain.

Perhaps they'd be better off recommending anyone in a car who is driving a trip under 5 miles that they get on a bike. There IS proven benefit, to them and everyone else, to that advice

It's OK, it was a genuine misinterpretation. A corrected email has since been sent.

I supposed I shouldn't be surprised that some coppers are pretty selective as to how they choose to interpret instructions to them/the law/guidance.

oh, thanks.

There was a cop on Hampstead Rd last night (outside Shaker & Co) pulling over cyclists without lights. In the ten minutes or so that I was stood there he pulled over about half a dozen cyclists (probably about 5-10%).

I don't have any issue with that but the timing of this, as others have said, is obviously linking it to the recent spate of deaths (although I don't think any of those happened in the dark).

As the lad who I was with (who isn't a cyclist) said though, there's a lot more money behind HGVs and financial repercussions if you're holding them up.

The copper I spoke to this morning said a motorist isn't breaking the law if their vehicle is over the first line... I lost interest at that point and didn't continue the conversation...

How can a copper recommend something that has no legal basis and no proven benefit?

I recommend Sir try the pumpkin soup.

That^ has proven benefit...

How can a copper recommend something that has no legal basis and no proven benefit? I would ask if they suggested I wore a hi viz or helmet if it's their own opinion or what ... If they had been told to suggest this random opinion I would want to know by whom and would complain.

Police officers can say what they want to whomever they want whenever they want, within the confines of the law and guidelines for preofessional standards.

You are, however, entitled to ignore whatever they say, unless they are giving you a lawful command.

The police are actual people*, permitted by law to exercise certain powers.

*ACAB etc..

I got asked to dismount my bike last night and step onto the pavement on Essex road last night (Hi-viz jacket, Hi-viz bike and no helmet) I said I didn't want to etc blah blah and was asked for ID - I dont carry any or have any, so I told them this and they said I had to show them something with my identity on it.

At this point I thought sod it and rode off without much fuss. I dont have to have ID, do I?

The copper I spoke to this morning said a motorist isn't breaking the law if their vehicle is over the first line... I lost interest at that point and didn't continue the conversation...

It's a shame that the police don't know the law, especially given the duty that they've been recently given.

The LTDA have helpfully posted some videos on Youtube they filmed of a couple of junctions where they left a camera on for an hour in a morning rush hour.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclists-caught-jumping-red-lights-in-london-taxi-drivers-hidden-camera-footage-8969043.html

The copper I spoke to this morning said a motorist isn't breaking the law if their vehicle is over the first line... I lost interest at that point and didn't continue the conversation...

It's a shame that the police don't know the law, especially given the duty that they've been recently given.

It does depend on whether the light was red when the line was crossed though.

I got asked to dismount my bike last night and step onto the pavement on Essex road last night (Hi-viz jacket, Hi-viz bike and no helmet) I said I didn't want to etc blah blah and was asked for ID - I dont carry any or have any, so I told them this and they said I had to show them something with my identity on it.

At this point I thought sod it and rode off without much fuss. I dont have to have ID, do I?

Even if you are carrying ID there is no need to give it to them unless they are arresting you or they have reasonable suspicion that you are up to no good. These little "safety" chats are entirely voluntary. Asking for ID is actually a bit fucking cheeky, it must be a ploy to make their advice seem more official instead of being seen as the half baked opinion of people with little applicable experience.

Even if you are carrying ID there is no need to give it to them unless they are arresting you or they have reasonable suspicion that you are up to no good.

Not quite.

They can require* your name and address for the purpose of a summons, or if they are arresting you / reporting you for an offence.

They may not require* your name an address if they have any suspicion of something, unless they are arresting you.

You do not have to provide any ID. If they don't believe the name and address that you give, they may arrest you for the purpose of ascertaining your name and address.

If you are driving, they may require your driving license, insurance docs etc...

PCSOs have some designated authority which provides them with the authority to require name and address (sometimes for the same reasons above), and refusal to comply is an arrestable offence.

• By "require", I mean you must give it to them, or they may arrest and charge you.