Police spotting (junction watch)

Speaking of this "joining the ASL from the bike lane/left". I noticed today on the way in that the one at the lights by the BP garage on Camberwell Road, northbound, there is no access point. The first line is solid and straight all the way to the double yellows. What the fuck are you supposed to do then?

Wait behind the first line. Write to council (good luck with that).

+1

^^live in Brighton.

It takes you 40 minutes on the bike in to Brighton? That's a Shoreham-By-Sea or Pisshaven commute?

Stopped by community services officer on Hampstead Rd - he was doing a 'Survey' on why I wasn't wearing a helmet.

I was unaware that the number of cyclists dying in the last week was due to to them throwing themselves under vehicles on purpose.

Just so you know: It's almost certain that cycle helmets kill more people than they save:

1) The largest study of its kind (Rodgers 1988) said "bicycle-related fatalities are positively and significantly associated with increased helmet use"

2) Wearing helmets stops people riding. Obvious health disadvantages to all.

^^
I believe skydancer was suggesting that, based on my previous form, in 40 minutes I could commute london -> cam. as today's desk is in London, I adjusted things to suggest I was starting in Brighton, so as to provide an equal mileage. I live in London, rode slower today than I have in forever, and explaining this has killed what little entertainment it had provided me. Ah well.

Had another chat with the cunts outside Brixton cop shop today wrt dickhead motorists in the ASL and box junction twenty yards down the road at the previous junction... Fobbed off...

I then pointed to the guy in the Tesco van who was over the edge of the ASL... "Why don't you book him instead of handing out RLJ tickets to cyclists?"... No response...

FUCK... OFF...

piggys outside euston station / marylebone road telling riders to 'get behind the line' - effectively forcing them to bunch up on the left hand side of a cunting great double decker.

because rules lol!

Fargo.mov - YouTube

^^
in 40 minutes I could commute london -> cam..

So no police to talk to on the way home
(Or you were too fast for them to spot

..................................................................................

Anyone was cycling pass Walworth Road today about 5:45-ish? I think it was outside one of the tesco express there was a cyclist seemed to be having a slightly heated debate with 2 cops and one of them was hold the cyclist arm seemed want to shove him to the back of the police car, and the other one held possession of his bike. Anyone knows what happened? If he just jumped the red light, which is the probable case, it seems a little dramatic. A very similar thing I saw down the road at the roundabout at the Elephant. Obviously I don't know the full stories of either case, but are all these really necessary?

Anyone was cycling pass Walworth Road today about 5:45-ish? it was outside one of the tesco express there was a cyclist seemed to be having a slightly heated debate with 2 cops and one of them was hold the cyclist arm seemed want to shove him to the back of the police car, and the other one held possession of his bike. Anyone knows what happened? If he just jumped the red light, which is the probable case, it seems a little dramatic. A very similar thing I saw down the road at the roundabout at the Elephant. Obviously I don't know the full stories of either case, but are all these really necessary?

Issue there is if they're trying to give him an FPN and he won't provide ID or they can't ascertain name/address they may have to take him to police station to get those details.

Yeah I guess so, but the police station is only like 30 seconds down the road, couldn't they walk? Was it really necessary to shove something in the cage at the back of the van? (I didn't see that happen but the door was open...) it all just seemed a little heavy handed... I counted about 15 pigs in a 5 mins ride. What a waste of resources...

But as you say, you don't know the whole story for each of these incidents...

I like seeing police out on the streets, especially in dodgy areas, actually doing the grunt work.

Sure, some officers might not be as clued-up on cycle safety as they should be but I've noticed far less dodgy driving and ASL-encroaching in the past week - and several drivers have even given me a wide birth or right of way at junctions.

Fewer RLJers too which can only be a good thing.

It's a start :)

If they are actually doing their job properly then I have no problem with it, but my personal experience says that they are often ill mannered. Just the other day, I was walking with my bike, about to get on it a little further down the road and had no intention to cross the road to the right, the police in the middle directly traffic shouted at me and say "don't you cross the road now! Just don't." It wasn't a nervous warning, it was a proper shouting at.

There were also a couple of time on Camberwell Road when I stop at the red light, the police there to catch RLJers would stare at me, making sure I won't jump and completely ignore the oncoming cyclists who had just jumped the light. I even confronted them once and they just ignored me.

Guess what I am trying to say is, some of them don't really do proper policing, they just aim for the easy / closely targets.

I still think more than a dozen police at 1 or 2 junctions, like the big one at the Elephant, which very few would dare to jump unless you have a death wish, is too much.

^^^^I was on Walworth Rd at about that time and I think something was going on, like the police actually solving some crime or busting some ghosts or something, as opposed to haranguing cyclists and passing on bullshit. Could be wrong though.

Saw a motorcycle cop pull over a clueless woman for RLJing at the intersection of Harwood Road and New Kings Road. The look on her face was priceless. Good on the fuzz but still loads of scooters in ASL, undertaking at speed and generally driving like cocks.

I then pointed to the guy in the Tesco van who was over the edge of the ASL... "Why don't you book him instead of handing out RLJ tickets to cyclists?"... No response...
Remember that it's not enforceable if the officer hasn't observed the offence--if, indeed, there was one.

As ever, don't fetishise ASL boxes too much. People sometimes see this as the only tit-for-tat available to them when it comes to enforcement, but speed enforcement (as a random example) would be far more important. ASL arrangements are fundamentally misconceived and difficult to enforce.

Oh, and I saw someone nabbed for RLJing tonight at the New Road/Commercial Road junction. He didn't spot the police at all.

Remember that it's not enforceable if the officer hasn't observed the offence--if, indeed, there was one.

As ever, don't fetishise ASL boxes too much. People sometimes see this as the only tit-for-tat available to them when it comes to enforcement, but speed enforcement (as a random example) would be far more important. ASL arrangements are fundamentally misconceived and difficult to enforce.

Speed is the crucial thing. Columnists who decry cyclists will often claim that speed cameras are a way to excessively tax motorists - who clearly weren't obeying the speed limit.

Police officers have been ordered to fine 10 cyclists a month each for road traffic offences after a spate of deaths among bicycle riders.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3933789.ece

Discuss

Oh dear, and now we have targets and performance management....

Call John Seddon.

For those of you interested in why target based public sector management is problematic go here:
http://www.systemsthinking.co.uk/home.asp

Be prepared for heresy, especially if you work in the NHS. There's also some stuff in there on the problems of police targets and the resultant game playing.

busting some ghosts

Police officers have been ordered to fine 10 cyclists a month each for road traffic offences after a spate of deaths among bicycle riders.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3933789.ece

Discuss

Doesn't they have a quota for everything? from ASBO to mobile driving?

For those of you interested in why target based public sector management is problematic go here:
http://www.systemsthinking.co.uk/home.asp

I have quite a bit of professional experience of this sort of thing (project manager innit) so will be interested to have a look.

The main problem as always in the public sector is a total disconnect between targets and the problem they are said to be designed to address. See the 'fining cyclists' thing above. I assume they will top it off with some completely meaningless and abstract yardstick, like monitoring the percentage of cyclists that "feel" safe, or something - I did notice that the TfL survey was quite heavy on this angle. But of course perception is everything in the political sphere, and a police blitz of junctions will make a lot of people "feel" safer (especially car driving voters). The real antidote is obvious - analyse and model the causes, locations, and times of incidents (as many have already done informally) and address them accordingly - but no-one has the political courage to actually implement it.

I The real antidote is obvious - analyse and model the causes, locations, and times of incidents (as many have already done informally) and address them accordingly - but no-one has the political courage to actually implement it.

To be fair TfL do this and issue an analysis of how crashes happen and release this in their pedals cycle casualty report every couple of years (Driver turned left into cyclist, driver turned right into cyclist, close overtaking, car dooring etc). They also use this information for education campaigns etc. However while the Met do have a representative at TfL who understands this, he is frustrated that outside the cycle safety task force there is so much ignorance about these issues that go right to the top of the Met.

One major issue here is that the advice they are giving cyclists re helmets, ipods and hi-viz has nothing to do with the law or even reducing the source of danger and what some are saying about where to ride in the lane is wrong and the opposite of what would minimise risk it is scandalous.

If stopped ask the PC if the advice s/he is giving is their personal view or the law. If the former I would complain since it is not their role to give the public their own view on anything