2008-07-14 - Rider Down/Fatality, Grays Inn Road

If you don't undertake trucks you're not likely to 'be next'. Trucks aren't going out of their way to mow us down. People have to realise drivers can't always see bikes and act accordingly, ie. not scooting up the fsckign side of a lorry/truck/hgv/van etc.

My thoughts were more for a campaign to make idiot cyclist aware, not so much the drivers?
Like you say, drivers cannot always see cyclists.

@ tomiskinky "idiot" cyclist....
We all make mistakes, accidents happen to all of us.

There is an HGV awareness day in Richmond on 19 July
http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1159

and free 1:1 adult cycle training all over London
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/4690.aspx[URL="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/4690.a"][/URL]

Shit, that's rough. I cycled down there everyday for work and you do tend to get knobs bombing it down/pulling out all over the place. Sad news :-(

my dad used to drive those plumb centre delivery lorries, not exactly HGV's, but too big to be called a truck. He said the blind spots were ridiculous and he had countless near misses with cyclists undertaking when he was turning left. They retrofitted most of the fleet (in Northern Ireland anyway) with audible turning signals. He said even though they get on the drivers nerves after a long shift, there were noticably less people undertaking.

I think it's kind of like the reversing beeps on other vehicles, they don't necessarily make you more aware of what the vehicle is doing, it's just more of a sign to other people that the driver might not be able to see you. If you get me.

@ tomiskinky "idiot" cyclist....
We all make mistakes, accidents happen to all of us.

Totally agree, i know i am as guilty as many, but there are a lot who are unaware of the dangers, riding along in flip flop and flowing skirts as well as the lycra clad full throttle types. I just feel, some kind of awareness campained, aimed at the cyclists who are unaware of the dangers of passing wagons on the left, would be a good move.

Terrible news. My thoughts to everyone effected.

Some cyclists seem to think that because they have the right to the road, everyone will treat them as an equal. This is not so, and only in Holland, do cyclists have the sort out street presence that allows respect from other (larger) road users.

I stay well back from lorries at traffic lights, knowing that the driver might not be able to see me, or that he may be distracted, and then there would be an accident. I find it hard to blame lorry drivers for these accidents. It normally renders them into emotional wrecks, for quite some time. Its hard to accept that through no fault of your own (sometimes) you ended someone's life, and in a gruesome fashion.

But this is really bad news, and witnessed far too often. Can't we as a forum, and a movement, do more to help other cyclists avoid such accidents? When the Critical Mass stops at where a rider lost their life, does anyone try to publicise this further? We cyclists are in the minority. To effect change our views need to be heard by the majority, or at least those views who matter.

Don't the road hauliers have an association, and maybe a website? Isn't it possible that we do more by a (friendly) campaign to educate? What do you think?

Sad news indeed.

I did see VeeVee's links, but I wondered if the LFGSS might do something separately, or unite with others.

The thing is there is A LOT of information around, on websites, in the media, I've seen tents around London giving information etc.. now people can choose or not to get information.

I also find the roads quite unfriendly and without naming the usual suspects ie drivers, I find cyclists pretty grim. Not a smile, not a tiny bit of community spirit when you are at the lights being bullied by drivers, motorbikes. And I've noticed that if I overtake a male cyclist, he sometimes becomes super competitive, spins like crazy. It is actually very amusing. Like a guy in a BMW being overtaken by a 2CV.

Tiresome...

So yes we can help but only if people want to listen.

My thoughts to the family of the cyclist and to the driver. Very sad.

(And my above comments: me ranting and my perception of things and me not always super confident. People are actually lovely and I promise not to aggravate guys by overtaking them and I will smile at drivers when they sit next to me on the ASL.)

gray's inn road is one of the worst places for this sort of thing it seems, the junction should have a "cyclists beware" sign on it, if it doesn't already.

+1 to jonny's sentiments

:( My thoughts with the family.

More needs to be done about lorries in central London. If we follow Boris' line of "thinking" regarding bendy buses, i.e. that they are cyclist killing (no evidence to say so, though) and should be removed, lorries should have been banned from central London ages ago.

gray's inn road is one of the worst places for this sort of thing it seems, the junction should have a "cyclists beware" sign on it, if it doesn't already.

I agree. A lot of larger vehicles seem to use it - I avoid it.

oh shit, I used to work at gray's inn road and cycle there and back everyday. who knows who's fault was it. i know we all are on the cyclists side, but who knows... often i see some cyclists trying to go straight ahead from the left lane, when a cars, vans and lorries are clearly indicating in advance, that they're turning left. but still, poor cyclists.

@GA2G

The best way is word of mouth, deaths highlight the risk. its one of many when cycling the roads. but its one of the easiest to aviods, VV is right. its common sense.
the only way you can change it is by warning others, I have demonstrated many a blind spot with the aid or salt and pepper and a pint glass

If you guys really want to join forces with someone you should speak to Buffalo Bill of Moving Target about it. He's been the instigator of a campaign for quite some time on behalf of London's Messengers
http://www.londonmessengers.org/HGV-Campaign

The reason cyclist overtake on the inside is because they are not comfortable using the whole of the road. This is with good reason. Take up the whole lane and the drivers start beeping their horns going all harry & billy. Pushed into the gutter is it any wonder people overtake on the inside? Although completely illegal it is actually safer at many junctions to ride on the opposite side of the road. I am getting fed up of reading about people being killed and miamed because they choose to ride a bike and I am also sick of all the indignant misdirected outrage against cyclists!

I hate hearing this and its becoming more frequent. Trouble is there are so many factors that we don't know about, was it rider error, driver ignorance. There has been a big difference I have noticed with small and large goods vehicles having "Cyclists do not pass on the left" stickers and also audible warnings when the truck is turning - has this become law? or just companies retro fitting there fleet.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/lorry-company-cemex-urges-others-to-look-daley-attacks-cyclists

my dad used to drive those plumb centre delivery lorries, not exactly HGV's, but too big to be called a truck. He said the blind spots were ridiculous and he had countless near misses with cyclists undertaking when he was turning left. They retrofitted most of the fleet (in Northern Ireland anyway) with audible turning signals. He said even though they get on the drivers nerves after a long shift, there were noticably less people undertaking.

I think it's kind of like the reversing beeps on other vehicles, they don't necessarily make you more aware of what the vehicle is doing, it's just more of a sign to other people that the driver might not be able to see you. If you get me.

Blind spots from HGV drivers view:

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/forum/discussion/598/diagrams-of-hgv-blind-spots-from-nozzer-these-could-save-your-life/
More on 'blind-spots'

You could fit a compressed gas panic alarm to a bike or even to a helmet something akin to a rape alarm but would alerting the driver in this way prevent you from being crushed?

There should be signs on the lower left hand sides of lorries simply stating "Cyclists - Do NOT undertake when I am coming to a junction"

You could fit a compressed gas panic alarm to a bike or even to a helmet something akin to a rape alarm but would alerting the driver in this way prevent you from being crushed?

I think an inductive proximity sensor with the nominal range set appropriately on the side of the truck might be more effective, you could have a warning light and alert noise in the drivers cab to show him if some idiot has just trundled up to a stop at his side.

Easy to make stuff, readily available technology, easy to apply and cheap too.

How you you stop it being set off by railings?

It is tragic that we see this sort of thing time and time again.

However if you ride like and idiot (and i am not by any means suggesting the poor bastard was), dont be too shocked if you end up resembling a pancake. The main benefit of riding a bike around London is the freedom it gives you when choosing a route, and the ability to hop onto a pavement, use a park for a shortcut, go through a light etc when the other road users have to sit and stew in traffic.

I think a lot of us (including me) are so used to taking these liberties with the highway code, that they have become entrenched into our riding habits and we forget the danger we are sometimes placing ourselves and others in.

Bicyclists are the only road users who are allowed to take to the highway without any formal training or licensing - perhaps a days training similar to a Motorcycle CBT would be of benefit to us all.

Bicycles are hard enough for other road users to see, but somtimes the way we ride does us no favors at all.