Nasty cycle accident on Kentish Town Rd last night

Life sucks.

The amount of women riding nonchalantly throught red lights as thought they are protected by an invisable shield amazes me! The worse place to spot it is at the Southampton row lights heading to Clerkenwell, they just ride through on their set throughts in flowing skirts and sandals, not a care in the world!

Want my girl to start riding more, but she has no road sense at all, and is from a country where they drive on the other side! Think I might try the tfl training thing for her, would be paranoid letting her out on her own!!!!

The amount of women riding nonchalantly throught red lights as thought they are protected by an invisable shield amazes me! The worse place to spot it is at the Southampton row lights heading to Clerkenwell, they just ride through on their set throughts in flowing skirts and sandals, not a care in the world!

Want my girl to start riding more, but she has no road sense at all, and is from a country where they drive on the other side! Think I might try the tfl training thing for her, would be paranoid letting her out on her own!!!!

probably the whole theory of car being more wary if the cyclist a females, and if it a male with helmet, less wary?

I found it a good way to teach her is to go out for a ride with her cycling right behind you doing what you're doing, e.g. turning right, hand signal etc.

all it take is a little bit of extra care, and see if she learn fast or not.

probably the whole theory of car being more wary if the cyclist a females,

Is this a good enough reason to cycle in drag?

Is this a good enough reason to cycle in drag?

just wear a wig and you be fine.

There was a Cycling Proficiency scheme when I were a lad. Got a badge and everything. Dunno if ot's still running.

Thought for a second i might still have my cycling proficiency badge some 20 years on... Can't find it tho :(

Thought for a second i might still have my cycling proficiency badge some 20 years on... Can't find it tho :(

Me neither. I've got two.

One proper old skool enamelled jobbie, one kinda sad tin badge with a sticker on it.

I was going to say summit but it was already said

just to recap for those at the back...

Dont
Fuck
With
Truck

How long before cyclists get the message:

Don't undertake. Period.

and read Cyclecraft by John Franklin

people should ride on the road not in the gutter, otherwise cars won't give you room.

ride fairly aggressively and take primary whenever possible.

Sadly, in many cases the cycle track/ASL does nothing more than place cyclists on the nearside of of other vehicles at a junction

i love you people. dont get squished yo.

Life sucks.

this is sad but often true.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1695668.ece
*
Women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by a lorry because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver’s blind spot, according to a study.*

This is NOT what the study said at all. That is speculation by the journalist.

Here are the actual stats:

*from 1999 - May 2004:
87 deaths of cyclists of which 21 were female, 66 male.

Of those 21 females an astonishing 18 (85%) were killed by HGV drivers.

Another 28 of the males (around 50%) were also killed by HGVs.*

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/chinese-whispers-female-cyclists-killed-by-hgvlgvs-in-london-1999-2004

*No conclusions were, or could be, drawn regarding whether or not red light jumping contributed or otherwise to the numbers of cyclists killed. There was no survey of the number of cyclists jumping red lights, broken down by sex attached to the report. In some of the cases there was consideration of the circumstances, but not all, because some of the files relating to the cases were not available to the LRSU researcher. Therefore all of the media comment yesterday was just that: comment.

I recall that at the time we were shown the report, members of the group speculated as to why females, and someone, possibly me, possibly someone else, speculated that it was because female cyclists tend to be more submissive on the road, and generally more law-abiding. And it’s possible that someone, again, possibly me, would have mentioned that Seb would probably still be alive today if he had NOT stopped at the red light alongside Terence Fallow’s tipper truck. But again, the speculation was just that: speculation.*

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/red-lights-and-media-spin

Again with the 'cyclist hits lorry' bullshit. What the fuck is that all about? How about there was a collision between a cyclist and lorry?

I'm going to send an email to the CNJ about this lazy, stupid journalistic habit.

MY GF hates cycling in London, always gets very nervous of traffic when we go out on the road together. If she's with me, probably because she doesn't go as fast as the traffic would like but takes my position in the road, we get a lot of overt or covert aggro from cars trying to shove us into the gutter. I always say, if they are getting pissed off with you, they can see you - so you're safe.

agreed we have all seen what timid cycling gets you in hospital, or worse.

Chris, I don't want to get into an argument over semantics, but I think you need to define timid and exactly how being easily frightened will land you in hospital.

Reckless riding could easily be defined as backing yourself to beat a left-signalling truck away from the lights. That's what Seb did (well, that's my guess - what other explanation could there be?) and he was killed.

'Movingtarget' got its name with good reason
a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one
the Vicar (Mr Smith) can tell me all day
that if only I were more considerate to other road users
they wouldn't mow me down
but out in the real world
although common courtesy matters
you got to keep your wits about you

As a few of you know I'm a 42 year old female cyclist who only started cycling in London in December and I've never driven a car. My confidence is building up slowly but surely.

I don't think I'm timid but for example I wouldn't rush ahead of red lights if I'm not sure when they're going to change. I approach slowly and as steadily as I can and check a good position for me to be seen by all the drivers, I check for other cyclists, passengers getting out of their cars. I look at drivers a lot too. I am very careful of big vehicles (4x4s, white vans, lorries, buses), they're higher than me, therefore assume they can never see me. I ride a lot away from the curb and parked cars, at least 1.5m but mainly 2m, I try to always keep a straight line (ie I don't zigzag between parked cars and the road). When a lane gives the option of turning left or ahead, I am in the primary position maybe even more towards the right and don't give a chance to cars to overtake me, they can wait.

But I feel a lot of pressure on the roads and a lot from cyclists, I can feel them behind me and maybe getting irritated because they could be faster than me and me being ahead stops their filtering. The same with cars when suddenly you hear someone who is behind you and starts pushing faster to overtake you and buses, and taxis, etc... And also looking ahead and feeling that everybody is into a mad race and you feel the pressure that you have to do the same.

Those are the things that make me lose my wit and make me feel I'm not welcome on the roads and I think a lot of women would agree with this feeling. I swear, I get angry... But then I keep reminding myself that I really want to be a good cyclist, be armed with patience, be assertive (rather than agressive), respect other road users.

Amazing how things change when you are relaxed and happy and that's what keeps me going.

Voila :)

STOP PRESS - someone said something clever:

"Cyclists who break the law and ride anti-socially only do so because the Highway Code is set against them, a cyclists' organisation has claimed.
CTC says cyclists may flout some of the rules, such as turning left on a red light, as it helps them to stay safe.
It has called for the code to be re-written to protect cyclists. Motoring organisation the AA said the behaviour of some cyclists meant in effect there were "two tribes" at war on the roads. "

More here

As a few of you know I'm a 42 year old female cyclist who only started cycling in London in December and I've never driven a car. My confidence is building up slowly but surely.

I don't think I'm timid but for example I wouldn't rush ahead of red lights if I'm not sure when they're going to change. I approach slowly and as steadily as I can and check a good position for me to be seen by all the drivers, I check for other cyclists, passengers getting out of their cars. I look at drivers a lot too. I am very careful of big vehicles (4x4s, white vans, lorries, buses), they're higher than me, therefore assume they can never see me. I ride a lot away from the curb and parked cars, at least 1.5m but mainly 2m, I try to always keep a straight line (ie I don't zigzag between parked cars and the road). When a lane gives the option of turning left or ahead, I am in the primary position maybe even more towards the right and don't give a chance to cars to overtake me, they can wait.

But I feel a lot of pressure on the roads and a lot from cyclists, I can feel them behind me and maybe getting irritated because they could be faster than me and me being ahead stops their filtering. The same with cars when suddenly you hear someone who is behind you and starts pushing faster to overtake you and buses, and taxis, etc... And also looking ahead and feeling that everybody is into a mad race and you feel the pressure that you have to do the same.

Those are the things that make me lose my wit and make me feel I'm not welcome on the roads and I think a lot of women would agree with this feeling. I swear, I get angry... But then I keep reminding myself that I really want to be a good cyclist, be armed with patience, be assertive (rather than agressive), respect other road users.

Amazing how things change when you are relaxed and happy and that's what keeps me going.

Voila :)

What a great post ! I get to see it from a completely different perspective
I am 44 I have been riding in the traffic for twenty five years
including eight years (back in the day) as a London courier
I like riding out in the countryside for sure all them trees and stuff is nice
but riding the traffic is what is really in my blood
I suppose for me saying safe is as much instinct as anything else
So to try to imagine what it would be like to be only riding since Christmas
Is quite humbling really

Thanks :)
But that's why I'm on the forum, I want to learn as much as I can, see how people think and learn from people who have loads of experience.

I realize it's a semantic point, but I'm not going to condone anyone who promotes an 'aggressive' approach to riding.

It wouldn't make me feel at all comfortable knowing that someone driving a motorized vehicle believes driving aggressively is any safer.

However, I'm aware that 'aggressive' is used in a positive light by Americans. I've heard of school reports praising student's aggression, which in that context means their drive to achieve things. It also has this meaning in Kelly's alternative constructivist psychological theory.

Seems to me VeeVee like you got the right idea. When I think of that poor lady going under that lorry (and probably being crippled for the rest of her life) I am really glad you are on here. Now you just got to work out which people to listen too..;)

Aggression:
[/URL]
In [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology"]psychology and other social and behavioral sciences, aggression refers to behavior that is intended to cause harm or pain. Aggression can be physical, mental, or verbal. Behavior that accidentally causes harm or pain is not aggression. Property damage and other destructive behavior may also fall under the definition of aggression. Aggression is not the same thing as assertiveness.

Now if you have ever driven a proper fast car you will know that the ability to accelerate can get you out of all sorts of trouble however driving fast cars requires a greater degree of skill .

"the Vicar (Mr Smith) can tell me all day
that if only I were more considerate to other road users
they wouldn't mow me down
but out in the real world
although common courtesy matters
you got to keep your wits about you"

i'm afraid that i'm not a member of the clergy nor am i hoping to be ordained in the near future, i could pray all day for you to be more considerate but i don't think i will bother as i'm sure you know how to 'keep your wits about you'.
it's the tenet that a cycling safety scheme should involve jumping up on the pavement to undertake that goes against my beliefs.

jumping up on the pavement to undertake that goes against my beliefs

I didn't exactly say that rather that I will use the pavement to stay out of harms way
like when cars overtake and then immediately turn in front of you

in the same way that i didn't "exactly" say that if only I(you) were more considerate to other road users
they wouldn't mow me down.

your opinion is different than mine, poring over the minutiae of our discourse isn't going to further our enlightemment

Now if you have ever driven a proper fast car you will know that the ability to accelerate can get you out of all sorts of trouble however driving fast cars requires a greater degree of skill .

True - but it doesn't have to done aggressively. There are certainly situations that occur where no amount of foresight or anticipation can stop you needing to accelerate to get out of a tight spot. Generally this would be where braking just isn't going to stop you quickly enough, so typically you'd be travelling at a medium to fast pace anyway.

Without meaning to boast, in cycling terms I am a bit of a fast car. I've probably got more snap/a quicker jump than 99% of people on the road, and I've had to use it. But some of those times it was a bit of a panic decision due to either riding a little too fast in the context of a busy urban environment, or getting over-excited during clubrun frolics on twisty country lanes.