NE London Bike Polo: Wednesdays: Mitchison Road N1 / Weekends:Hackney Downs E5

I am all for actions to call for the reform bla bla bla... But it's not gonna happen.

If you think any significant changes would happen, then you are hopeful at best.

I think the Egyptians might disagree with you. And the Tunisians. And a few others.

When you give up, when you think that change is impossible, you become part of the problem. When you continue to spread the message that "you have no choice", you perpetuate that myth and dissuade resistance. Do you actually support what the tories are doing?

Damn, might have to put the eagle on unignore. Well said Eggpie. I'd march if I didn't have TeenSlain-knee.

Yes, well said Eggpie.

Ben is wrong: Democracy happens outside of the electoral system, through labor and social movements, in the street. As we know from the French revolution through to the US civil rights movement to the Egypt today.

It is indeed a hard fight and the powerful usually win, but better to fight and lose than to cop out entirely. Speaking of which, I am late for the march and leaving now.

Go Oxford!

Winners:

Losers:

Also, I was on TV (though it's hard to see).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zwnrh/The_Boat_Race_2011/

Between 1:39:55 and 1:40:30, behind the rowers right shoulder, at the left hand side of the boathouse, just above the white banner, wearing a dark blue top. You can see me taking those pictures.

Have fun Chukker? I am covered in paint and the like. Hectic day, lots of running, wrecked now.

eggpie: They (Egyptians & Tunisians) are driven by desperation (they dont have a dole system, no NHS, no public housing and facing a steep rise in food cost) and the fact that the government was unstable in the first place, any of these applies to the UK? Comparing a 3rd world country to the UK is just for the sake of arguement and holds no basis at all. Or had the UK sunk so low they are now on par with Egypt and Tunisia?

The irony is any changes in a developed nation just do not happen, "Oh, labour was shite, let's give the Lib Dem and Tories a chance...". Protest, nice, but the policy makers are just gonna put your grouse pretty much on ignore, pursue their own agenda and unless and until the lobbyist steps in to protect their economic interests, they are just gonna short change the voters and take them for a ride. Are you willing to give up the stability and the comfort of what you are enjoying now, take the chance and go for wholesale changes? I guess the answer is pretty obvious.

You conveniently ignored my point on horse trading and the betrayals of politicians and labour union leaders once they are elected policy makers. That's what I am against, the fact the elected leaders can lie and get away with it, and that's what makes me sick.

Furthermore, I am not too keen to get cattled nor being set upon by anyone let alone the police, yes, peaceful demo, but there are idiots abound who would hijack the march just to cause commotion.

Chukker: Oh yeah? When did those events take place? Recently? The democratic systems allows for consolidation of power through a so call just system of voting, yes, once in a while the opposition gets into power but will their policy differ much compared to the previous government they replace? Again, conveniently ignored the 2-party lesser of two evil and lobbyist point being put through. Like to debate about that?

Benjamin...

he plays polo, so he can talk.

as for you...

I would like to put myself forward as a witness that Joe actually plays polo.

North east polo looks like a right old hoot..

how was doing drills with three players?

Ben, are you tarring the demonstrators with the same apathetic distain that you feel towards the government? What's your point? Give up now? Fuck the system?

I agree that the demonstration process can sometimes feel a little contrived, orderly and "convenient", but I'm still glad it's happening. Month long union-supported sit-ins and an unproductive country for the win...

My disdain: The notion that a democratic politcal system allows for the opinion of the majority to incluence the decision of the government either through votes or protests. Remember the anti-war protest? It was a rally even larger than the one in question but did it sway the government's stand on the invasion? There was no WMD, there was no mandate from the UN and the invasion still went through.

Yes, it is important to be heard and protest in the past had indeed brought results but as I already said, there is no way that in the immediate future any significant changes would happen. It is nice to see Miliband addressing the crowd but he was elected through the backing of TUC votes hence has an obligation to be present and offer his support. Did he do it with the best interest of the unions or general public at heart, or is this just to garner brownie points now that he is in opposition? Only time will tell, I reserve my judgement on this.

Am I affected by this? Yes, my mother is on state pension, something which seems pretty certain back in her days but with the pending review on it might not bode so well for her, current and future pensioners.

Ben, are you tarring the demonstrators with the same apathetic distain that you feel towards the government? What's your point? Give up now? Fuck the system?

I agree that the demonstration process can sometimes feel a little contrived, orderly and "convenient", but I'm still glad it's happening. Month long union-supported sit-ins and an unproductive country for the win...

Point to ponder: Let's agree to disagree? Everyone has a stand and view on this matter, mine might not be as widely accepted as that of the majority but this is politics, no one arguement stands as the most correct/just or the less popular opinion being the one that should be discarded.

sooooooooooo

polo today?

Wrong thread spoons.

If Ben had spread his wisdom more widely, then 400,000 people could have saved their time and energy yesterday. They could have used their time more productively, like going to the park, and waited until the next election to let their voice be heard.

Have fun Chukker? I am covered in paint and the like. Hectic day, lots of running, wrecked now.

Yes, it was awesome. I am really happy I participated.

Comparing a 3rd world country to the UK is just for the sake of arguement and holds no basis at all.

Couldn't be more wrong. Both are similar types of case: Ordinary people trying to make change in the face of entrenched elite interests in control of state power. Indeed, given that the stakes are higher for those in the 3rd world -- fewer checks on policy and military retaliation -- social movements and revolution are arguably harder there, and thus have lessons for us in the "1st world."

Behind every so-called democratic government is the raw power of the state (police, military) to maintain the status quo.

north east polo today?

im heading to polo now. Ill stop by Mitch and Downham in 30/40 mins and if no ones there then ill carry on to Newington. Would prefer NE though...

north east polo today?

I could also play ne.

At downham ill hang around for 10/20 and then head south

Nice Robb.

Perfect shot.