Motorcycles in your bus lane

Unfixed. The London trials didn't deliver any evidence either way.

It did until political pressure from the LCC and CTC forced TFL to massage the evidence out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/2750428/The-truth-about-bikes-and-bus-lanes.html

TfL created three trial routes on which "P2Ws" (powered two-wheelers) were allowed to use bus lanes, although one, on the A13, was later discounted because the figures were distorted by major roadworks. Results from the other two, on the A23 in south London and the A41 in north London, show major safety benefits to all "VRUs" (Vulnerable Road Users - ie pedestrians, cyclists and scooter/motorcycle riders). According to the report's executive summary, there was a net reduction in collisions involving P2Ws and pedestrians (46 per cent) or cyclists (44 per cent), plus a 45 per cent reduction in P2W casualties.
The evidence is especially clear after traffic migration is taken into account. The report shows that large numbers of motorcyclists changed their routes into London to take advantage of the trial bus lanes, with P2W traffic increasing on the experimental routes by between 25 and 40 per cent and falling by similar amounts on parallel roads that were monitored. Yet 24 months into the study period (extended from 18 to 36 months, with motorcycle groups claiming that this was sparked by the politically uncomfortable conclusions that were being reached), TfL changed its method of generating data to something called the Tanner Test. Even the report's own conclusion questions the validity of this test, which is generally considered to be an outdated statistical tool. It says: "What that [the Tanner] method cannot do is allow for any fluctuations in vehicle usage, and therefore cannot account for the impact of migration on the results to be used." Previously, the figures from the trial routes were being compared with parallel control routes where P2Ws were not allowed in bus lanes - and it's these more realistic, earlier figures that provide conclusive, positive evidence.

and

Crucially, the report also shows that cyclists did not abandon bus lanes through fear of motorcycles - which has always been the most common reason cited for denying bus-lane access to P2Ws. Indeed, the experimental bus lanes recorded increased cycle usage (on top of a growth in cycle usage across London generally over the trial period) as the following extract indicates: "The evidence from casualty and collision data shows that cyclists' concerns that their casualty rates would rise, and use of their mode would decline, were unfounded in practice... the safety records for cyclists significantly improved where the measure was deployed. Results also show that cycling rose on trial sites - despite the presence of P2W riders in bus lanes and a significantly above-average rise in P2W use of trial routes.

Of course even if you were correct, and there was no evidence either way, there is therefore no justification whatsoever for preventing motorcycles from using bus lanes.

There are plenty of cunts on the roads and personally I can't determine which mode of transport has the greatest proportion.

Be aware of your own errors, be tolerent of others mistakes and use those experiences to avoid situations that lead you into danger.

In the words of Bill and Ted, "be excellent to each other"

My comment was to see if there were others who had experienced the impatience of bus and cab drivers recently. The drivers seem to want to undertake traffic and take umbrage a having a cycle there in their way, even thought the all I was doing was riding in the correct road position.

My only gripe this week is black cabs either straddling the solid white line, hedging their bets on the speed of traffic in the two lanes, or using the bus lane to undertake the flow of traffic. That and the lack of indicators / signals etc. when they do it.

Oh, and a bus lane question I've forgotten to ask all week - what's the legality of commercial coaches in bus lanes is? Community Transport type people firstly, and then the National Express types too?

My comment was to see if there were others who had experienced the impatience of bus and cab drivers recently. The drivers seem to want to undertake traffic and take umbrage a having a cycle there in their way, even thought the all I was doing was riding in the correct road position.

seriously, does it vary seasonally?

My only gripe this week is black cabs either straddling the solid white line, hedging their bets on the speed of traffic in the two lanes, or using the bus lane to undertake the flow of traffic. That and the lack of indicators / signals etc. when they do it.

Oh, and a bus lane question I've forgotten to ask all week - what's the legality of commercial coaches in bus lanes is? Community Transport type people firstly, and then the National Express types too?

If its over a certain number of seats (even if hey are empty), its allowed in the bus unless it states local buses on the sign.

seriously, does it vary seasonally?

I don't know, my opinion is that it could be. But with the caveat that I do more journeys on the bike in the nice weather. So being more exposed to it.

There are studies (i remember) that less sleep due to warm weather means irritable people, hence less patience.

the guy does cite all the things cyclists do wrong to be fair. everyone on this forum tells/ complains about other cyclists not looking behind them, dangerous right hand turns, overtaking HGVs on the left and lets not get started on RLJing if you do those things then you are a dangerous cyclist so fair play

that would be undertaking

That would be victimisation.. or something.

So merge a thread with a matching word, never mind that a search was done and no relevant threads were there.

By the way Andyp nice to see you to x

trail to be extended.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/MIBL-report-2010.pdf

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/15795.aspx

this is reflective of the rather shit leader of london at the moment. the report says it all about the results, the annoucement says it all about politics.

a different interpretation to Tfl...
http://www.glalabour.com/index.php?id=130&tx_ttnews%5btt_news%5d=551&tx_ttnews%5bbackPid%5d=3&cHash=b1711ebd0a

http://lydall.standard.co.uk/2010/06/motorbikes-in-bus-lanes-make-it-more-dangerous-for-all-on-two-wheels.html

seems that the report concludes that motorcyclists are generally idiots and should be banned from all roads for their own safety (well that's my reading of it:).

I just don't get it.

The TfL "independent" Transport Research Laboratory report into the trial of motorcycles in bus lanes emphatically concludes that motorcyclists are worse off. It shows that more motorcyclists exceeded the speed limit. How then does TfL/ Boris conclude that they should do another trial? Seems to me this is Boris' way of buying votes from motorcyclists. Seems TfL are slaves to Boris' whim. Pathetic.

Para 4.3.4 :
"Conclusions - Collision Rates on the Network
The relative change in collision rates on the TLRN roads with a bus
lane compared and other lanes appears to imply that permitting
motorcycles access to bus lanes:
o increased motorcyclists' chance of having a collision.
o did not affect cyclists' chance of having a collision
o did not affect pedestrians‟ chance of having a collision"

**Section 3.4.2 On exceeding the speed limit: **
In the After survey on the Main sites, 47% of motorcycles were filmed exceeding the speed limit between the two timing points. The increase in percentage of motorcycles exceeding the speed limit was 6% on the Control sites and 10% on the Main sites. Although this initially appears similar, a statistical analysis shows that the percentage increase on the Main sites was greater than that on the Control sites (at the 95% confidence level).

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/MIBL-report-2010.pdf

First post - what I've seen recently is an increase in the number of aggressive, over reving, big motorcycles driving right close behind and expecting to bully their way through. It gets my goat.

Actually we want to get to work and home from work as fast as possible to increase our leisure time! If I spend longer at work I don't get paid more, typically true for salaried staff.

I think that everyone lives way too fast...
Everyone gets pissed off at everyone else because people are going places too slowly.
We all need to ease up;
and for those of you who think life is too short- your argument fails at your premature death due to the onset of heart problems as a result of stress.
Don't get me wrong I ain't no hippy but I'm only 16 and adults seem to think they don't have time for anything besides making money. Because that is what it all comes down to isn't it? Everyone wants to get everywhere quick to make more money- Commuters to/from work- public transport workers doing their jobs. Maybe I'm being too naive about this but the reason everyone here got all stressed out is because people as so self interested- how about we just treat our fellow road user as we would like to be treated, be safe and stop getting worked up about relatively insignificant things.
apologies for the boring philosophical rant guys.

Stand up to them, if you're going faster than the traffic you've got every right to overtake on the outside of the cars. I just block their way, they can wait.

First post - what I've seen recently is an increase in the number of aggressive, over reving, big motorcycles driving right close behind and expecting to bully their way through. It gets my goat.

First post - what I've seen recently is an increase in the number of aggressive, over reving, big motorcycles driving right close behind and expecting to bully their way through. It gets my goat.

Its not big bikes you have to worry about, they have so much power and acceleration that they'll be round you and gone before you know it. The unsafe ones are the little learner bikes and mopeds, their top speed in traffic isn't much more than a fit, experienced cyclist, they are much more affected by wind and the wind from passing vehicles, and because they accelerate slower they will be trying to overtake in the same spots as cyclists, or trying to make time up by recklessly filtering or cutting up the outside of queues.

I though I did notice them going way too fast (30mph on a congested road), sometime freak me out as I can never hear them coming but didn't look back enough to notice them appearing.

seriously, does it vary seasonally?

Cyclists vary with the seasons... If I was a professional driver like a taxi driver I'd curse the sunny weather because it's when the roads get clogged up with slow moving nodders... In the winter thier annoyance at cyclists isn't going to be as much because they won't be sitting behind the dayglow peleton...

seems that the report concludes that motorcyclists are generally idiots and should be banned from all roads for their own safety (well that's my reading of it:).

I'd go along with that, in general.

(shuffles off to polish GSXR....)

Pah, motorcyclists have the mayorship of london held by the balls and no way are they going to be banned from bus lanes. One only needs to commute through the Trafalgar Sq. area on Wednesday mornings to see it - week after week they have been blocking up traffic and are completely allowed to do so.

I'd like to see how quickly Critical Mass would be banned if it happened every week during rush hour. Pathetic...

Cyclists vary with the seasons... If I was a professional driver like a taxi driver I'd curse the sunny weather because it's when the roads get clogged up with slow moving nodders... ...

errr, motorised traffic is what clogs up the streets.

That long line of 6 black cabs probably transport 12-15 people max.
Ridiculous!

Vee, there's a picture in the internet of a town where they show the difference in size with car, peds, and buses.

It's on this forum...

Vee, I'm aware of that, but that's not how the majority of people think, if there's an open stretch of road (as there often is between lights) and a motorised vehicle is held up by a bunch of cyclists they are going to be annoyed... I know the arguements about how they are accelerating just to get to the next bit of traffic and the one or two car lengths of other vehicles filtering in front won't affect commute time... But the majority of drivers don't think about it...

When you are biten by a midge you don't think about how the decline in hedgerows has affected predetory birds, you (well non budists) want to squash the midge...

Anyway the point was about rage being cyclic (if you will excuse the pun) and that drivers get more enraged by the tonnes of nodders on the road in the current sunny weather than by the hard core few who brave winter...

Nb my phone wants to correct budist to nudist... Maybe it knows more about budism than I do...

seems that the report concludes that motorcyclists are generally idiots and should be banned from all roads for their own safety (well that's my reading of it:).

You can't have read it very carefully then :-)

It would therefore appear that the change in
collisions amongst cyclists were not a result of motorcyclists being permitted access to the bus lane....

The relative change in pedestrian collision rates on the TLRN roads with a bus
lane compared and other lanes appears to imply that permitting motorcycles
access to bus lanes did not affect their chance of having a collision. Overall, the
analysis implies that there was no evidence that a significant change in
pedestrian safety had occurred'.

The findings clearly state that there was an increase in cyclists getting hit by cars turning left into them. It also shows that there was an increase in motorcyclists getting hit by cars doing the very same thing. Do we blame the car drivers? Do we fuck. No, it must be the motorcyclist's fault because, well, they are just so noisy and dirty and rough and common aren't they?