Motorcycles in your bus lane

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  • Where's the evidence that this would be a bad thing? I haven't seen any.

    Does there need to be any?

    1. Motorbikes not in bus lane = no issue with motorbikes for cyclists.
    2. Motorbikes in bus lane = potential issue with motorbikes for cyclists.

    Sign now, sign often! :P

  • Keep buses out of bus lanes

  • It's not really motorbikes that bother me, I'd be happy if they were there. It's scooter/moped riders. Those guys are so freaking dangerous they give me the fear.

  • Same for me.

    I think it's safe to say that we'd all rather share the roads with motorcyclists than cars because the majority of them are good riders. Do motorcyclists even want to ride in bus lanes? :-/ I'll ask my mate who rides.

  • Yes, motorcyclist do want to ride in bus lanes - petitioning as we speak.

    In my view, unless a convincing case can be made that there good grounds to keep them out because of proven risk, it is foolish to needlessly antagonize another group of road-users.

    • 1 to the buffalo bill man
  • I would sign a petition that bans idiots in mopeds from going into the gaps that they know I am about to go through, then realising they cant get through, slamming on the breaks and thus cutting me off.
    But I don't really have a problem with motorbikes in bus lanes either. I do however think they should be limited to 20mph, as should buses ( during the day )

  • all motorised trafffic should be limited to 20.

    remove speed humps and "traffic calming measures" and actually start fining drivers for breaking the law, for a change.

    I don't really mind motorbikes at all, their riders don't approach oncoming traffic in the middle of the road at 50mph whilst talking into a fucking mobile phone.

    there are many more important things (IMO) that should be petitioned regarding cyclists safety

  • Yes, motorcyclist do want to ride in bus lanes - petitioning as we speak.
    In my view, unless a convincing case can be made that there good grounds to keep them out because of proven risk, it is foolish to needlessly antagonize another group of road-users.

    Do you know of locations where moto's share with cycles?
    What's the collision rate between the two road users like?

    Surely you'd need a trial run arranged on a bus lane somewhere (like the one way test for cycles on at the moment) to find out if accidents rates changed?

    What's the argument for motorcycles? Less risk to them from cars I suppose?

    You're good at this stuff Bill.. if you are opposed to this (I don't know your stance) then what approach would you take?

  • there are many more important things (IMO) that should be petitioned regarding cyclists safety

    Yes, but isn't this issue being decided upon? So isn't this issue a focus point for now?

    The petition to ban the flood of Unipacks isn't necessary yet as the law won't be changed for some time ;)

  • Do you know of locations where moto's share with cycles?
    What's the collision rate between the two road users like?

    Surely you'd need a trial run arranged on a bus lane somewhere (like the one way test for cycles on at the moment) to find out if accidents rates changed?

    What's the argument for motorcycles? Less risk to them from cars I suppose?

    You're good at this stuff Bill.. if you are opposed to this (I don't know your stance) then what approach would you take?

    TFL did a trial the other year, one of the places was Brixton Road (A23)
    Their report on it is here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/P2W-in-bus-lanes-study.pdf

    There's a bunch of statistics in it that I don't understand, but on accidents there's this:

    Conclusions - Impact on Vulnerable Road Users
    The VRU casualty number assessments were carried out using four scenarios. Each scenario compared the trial against both types of control, resulting in eight analyses for each VRU group.
    The assessment of P2W collision numbers showed six of the eight analyses as being beneficial to the safety of P2W riders and two out of eight showed a disbenefit. All four assessments during operational hours showed a safety benefit.
    The pedal cycle casualty numbers showed three of the eight analyses as being beneficial to the safety of pedal cyclists and five out of eight showed a disbenefit. Two of the four assessments during operational hours showed a safety benefit.
    The pedestrian casualty numbers showed two of the eight analyses as being beneficial to the safety of pedestrians, five returned a disbenefit and one showed no change.
    None of the figures produced are statistically significant.

    and on public opinion this:

    Customer research carried out on behalf of TfL into the attitudes of a range of road users were made available for this study. Studies targeted motorcyclists, cyclists, bus drivers, pedestrians and the general public.
    The surveys showed that only motorcyclists and car drivers (who are not also bus users) as the two user groups where a majority approved of the measure. Amongst the VRU groups, the main reason for disapproval of the measure was their perception of the compromise to safety.
    Among a sample of Londoners, more people believe allowing motorbikes to use bus lanes would be a bad idea than a good one, but opinion is strongly divided, with 45% in favour and 48% against.

    So TFL under Livingstone rejected it saying there was no proof there'd be any safety benefit to anyone.

  • There's also the disincentive to new cyclists, they are already scared enough to go onto public roads and bus lanes are their sanctuary, we'd be removing that sanctuary by allowing a constant stream of traffic into them. Buses are only periodic and thanks to their frequent stops average slightly slower speed than cycles, meaning that as they move at roughly the same speed as a commuter on a bicycle you don't really come into contact with them... that isn't true of motorcycles, mopeds and scooters which wouldn't be hindered by frequent stops and would have an above average speed in the bus lanes, thus creating a stream of traffic that isn't there.

    That's how I view it. That it creates the idea that there is no longer a sanctuary.

    And the reason I don't object to motorcyclists but do to scooters and mopeds is that I've witnessed motorcyclists being some of the most aware and considerate road users (due to their vulnerability in nearly all circumstances I suspect)... this isn't something that commuting scooter/moped users exhibit, and frequently I see their behaviour as being reckless and dangerous.

  • It's also surely making what a bus lane is actually there to do pretty fuzzy - I'd have thought to try and keep buses (or rather public transport, as taxis can use most of them too) moving. Who else might think they have a claim to use them in future? Private hire cars? Delivery drivers?

    I don't know if it would happen, but I don't like the idea of the inconsiderate jostling you see from scooter riders at lights in bus lanes too - seems likely that lots of them won't care about their affect on the buses and bikes behind them. Or maybe that's too biased and judgmental, I dunno.

  • None of the figures produced are statistically significant.

    That's my point.

  • Here we go....(from ITV news)
    From January next year motorcyclists will be able to use bus lanes along red routes in London during peak hours. It should ease congestion and make journeys safer.

  • Arse. Guess they'll cog up the asl too.

  • the trouble with motorbikers is they want their cake and to eat it just like cyclists. if you take the polar opposites of fluro wearing slow cycle commuter who obeys all traffic laws and the brakeless hipster shouting at peds as he jumps a red how can other road users take their claims for safer roads seriously.
    motorbikes get 'think bike' and we are supposed to watch out for them as they are vulnerable on the road, well if they didn't go around at warp speed driving like a shortarse with a small penis all the time then maybe the evil motorist would be more considerate.

    cunts the lot of them.

  • C+

    Who cares? they use them anyway.

  • I think this is a really bad idea. Motorbikes have used Bus lanes for a while but they stay close to the edge (as it less of an offence?). Now they will fly down the middle, undertake us and fill up the gaps in traffic (they also do this, do they not know how big there bikes are!!!!). When there are a number of colisions I think this law maybe rethought.

  • I ride motorbikes as well as bicycles and people like the LCC really piss me off with their unrealistic, biased and anti-everything-except-cycles bullshit. For a start they are not cyclists' bus lanes. They are for buses.

    No-one has yet mentioned the findings of the 18 month long pilot study. They were that motorcycle, bicycle and pedestrian accidents were ALL down by roughly 50%. Everyone won. Here's why

    Motorcyclists (at least those with British full bike licences) are probably amongst the most highly trained and skilled road users you will encounter. Not only do we do a shit load more training than anyone in a car or on a bicycle (which for the majority of cyclists is none at all) we also have an acutely developed sense of our own vulnerability and mortality. I guarantee the vast majority of shit riding you see will be people with L plates on their bikes. you know they are crap because they have not managed to pass their test yet.

    Motorcycles have engines that make a noise. That means that pedestrians who, as we all know, blithely step into the road without looking may on occasion stay on the pavement, and perhaps even look, because they heard a motorbike engine.

    Motorcycles in bus lanes means fewer motorcycles in between lanes of traffic and fewer motorcycles in the middle of the road. safer for motorbikes, but also safer for anyone crossing, anyone cycling, overtaking etc. No nasty surprises because motorbikes will be out in the open for all to see.

    Motorcycles - well, at least the one ridden by me - take a protective attitude towards bicycles. I will block traffic, create space, rev my motor to warn dozy pedestrians of my presence - whatever it takes - to make an overtake or a junction or any other manoeuvre safer for a cyclist. So will many others I see. Even those bikers who are not also cyclists know how much room we ourselves like to be left. In bus lanes this means motorcyclists will also be watching cyclists backs against buses, black cabs, people turning left, etc. If left turners get used to looking out for motorbikes (who have insurance and can sue them, so maybe they will, you never know) then they will get used to looking out for bicycles too.

    This includes Advanced stop lines. Yes bikers use them, and for the exact reasons that they were put there for cyclists - because it is far safer to only have to worry about what's behind rather than what is in front too - like cyclists motorbike riders need to know what is going on much further ahead than a car does. But there's another reason motorcyclists use them. Because cyclists don't. The number of junctions where these are placed in a position that is actually of any use to a cyclist is minimal, and most cyclists either stop well ahead of the ASL or just don't bother stopping at all. That's fine with me as long as they give pedestrians the right of way. Now I personally will not enter an ASL if I am already at the front of the queue, and blatantly position myself so as to set the example to other bikers (which sometimes works), but I will use them if I am filtering to the front. One thing about ASLs which is never mentioned is that the very presence of motorbikes in them is what keeps the cars and vans out of them. which allows the space not occupied by the motorcycle to be occupied by a bicycle. you know yourselves if there is no motorbike up front the ASL is usually full of car, bus, cab, van or truck.

  • BlueQuinn. I agree, I think cyclists have to get off their high horse on this. There's a lot of good Mbike riders who think, act, position and ride defensively like I do out on the road, and often find myself thanking the good ones for just the sorts of things you're talking about, particularly the professionals. Like Tommy said at the top of this page, shit motorcyclists tend to naturally select themselves into early graves or hospital.

  • +1 to BB and Skully - i ride bikes and MBikes daily, and spent 3 years living in Bristol where this has been allowed since 99, and never once had a problem on a motorbike or bicycle. I doubt in practice it will make any difference to riding around town.

  • Ok, I will retract part of my rant. I agree that a lot of Mbikes riders are acctualy quite considerate. I do find Mopeds to be quite a problem though. As BlueQuin pointed out. This is due to the fact that they have only done a CPD and have not passed a test. Although these people arguably need the safer bus lanes they tend to be more reckless (and clueless?) than their higher trained, higher CC'ed counterparts.

  • Ok, I will retract part of my rant. I agree that a lot of Mbikes riders are acctualy quite considerate. I do find Mopeds to be quite a problem though. As BlueQuin pointed out. This is due to the fact that they have only done a CPD and have not passed a test. Although these people arguably need the safer bus lanes they tend to be more reckless (and clueless?) than their higher trained, higher CC'ed counterparts.

    You have hit the nail on the head there - as both a cyclists and motorcyclist, under trained scooter riders are the road users i am most wary of

  • BlueQuinn. I agree, I think cyclists have to get off their high horse on this. There's a lot of good Mbike riders who think, act, position and ride defensively like I do out on the road, and often find myself thanking the good ones for just the sorts of things you're talking about, particularly the professionals. Like Tommy said at the top of this page, shit motorcyclists tend to naturally select themselves into early graves or hospital.

    +1 to Skully and BlueQuinn.
    Read BlueQuinn's post, hopefully it will make people think before knee jerk reactions and lumping motorcyclists in with vans, taxi's, buses, etc. Anything on two wheels is inherently more vulnerable than their four wheeled counterparts and this bus lane rule/law means all two wheeled users will be safer.

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Motorcycles in your bus lane

Posted by Avatar for runcible_rakan @runcible_rakan

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