Coffee Appreciation

Cheers! A very helpful comment too.

When I read this first I thought you might be parodying me... :-)

This is exactly the situation I am in. Well, sort of. I have the same machine. If you unscrew the bottom you can remove the pressurised part of the filter basket, the good news being that it is the basket that is pressurised rather than the portafilter itself.

The trouble you might then find (this is where I am at in the process) is that while the basket looks like a 53mm diameter (fairly standard for domestic espresso machines) the basket seems to be tapered so a 53mm tamper won't fit in (after the first 1mm depth). And if you don't get a tamper you won't be able to make espresso without the pressurised basket.

As far as I can make out, if you can find a basket to fit the portafilter and a tamper to match the basket you will be fine. See bombcup's post on this page regarding 53mm baskets that might fit. However the thing I haven't yet figured out is if they will actually fit- the standard abskets that come with the machine have a flat lip at the top whereas the replacement that bombcup highlighted looks to have a curved lip. I'm not sure if it will be able to sit properly in the PF and so if it sits a bit high, the PF might not lock into the machine properly, or maybe it will but the edge of the basket might hit it.

Sorry for the slightly long and perhaps confusing post. Have a browse back a few pages and pretty much everything I've posted is regarding the issue you're having. Once I have a replacement basket that works I will happily let you know. If I can't get one then I'm probably going to buy a new machine. I got mine as a gift too and I didn't know too much about espresso prep at the time.

If anything I've said is way off the mark then more knowledgable people should feel free to correct me, ta.

I'm writing this in the hope that I won't get completely shot down about the quality of equipment that I have. I'm using a Delonghi Icona Espresso machine due to 2 things. Firstly, we can't afford better, secondly, it was a wedding gift. That out of the way I'd like to ask some advice if anyone knows anything about it:

They use strange baskets, which I've never seen before. On their website it's described as a '2 in 1 crema filter holder suitable for ground coffee or e.s.e. pods'. I get that the idea is for it to be usable for pods, if you so despicably choose, but I'm not sure if that's affecting my normal espressos (from espresso ground coffee) and whether I can swap the baskets for standard ones. They have a rubber seal and then, what looks like, a pressure fitting. What I'm wondering is whether this type of basket is a necessity to gain the correct pressure to produce an espresso with my machine. Here are a couple of pics of the basket.

Cheers rich, sounds like you're a little ahead of me! I'm not too fussed about making the perfect coffee, just good coffee. If it's going to be more hassle than it's worth, and the current basket isn't reducing the quality of the coffee (that's the bit I'm most bothered about. Have you noticed a difference?) then I'd rather stick with how it is than possible knacker up the machine by playing around with it too much.

Also, if you don't use the pressurised basket do you need to have a classic tamper, rather than the one on the machine, so that you can get the pressure on the puck?

Rich, I've just checked both baskets with my verniers and they're both 53mm straight sided. They don't seem to taper at all. I think what's more annoying is that the tamper that comes on the machine is a rather rounded 51mm which, when in the basket, seems to be about a cm too small!!
What type of tamper did you buy? Could you file it down a little, or would that pretty much ruin it?

TBH you can make some improvements to these machines but if you want to make good tasty coffee you are much better off sticking to manual brewing methods with high quality fresh coffee.

The inherent obstacles with these machines are firstly as you have discovered the pressurised basket, second is the flimsy lightweight portafilter which has no thermal stability and very quickly sucks the heat out of the brew with bad results for the coffee.

Thidly is the thermoblock water heater which heats the water to who knows what temperature, but there's no differentiation between brew temp and steam temp so it's way to high for good espresso

Fourth is the pump which delivers 15 bar in order to force coffee through the crema enhancing basket. Good espresso is delivered between 8-9 bar.

Sorry for the bad news, I'm just trying to illustrate that these machines are not really fit for purpose. Gaggia Classic and grinder is the minimum entry requirement for home espresso and even then you need to want to make it into a new hobby to get results. My advice is always that espresso is just another brew method, not the best brew method. Look at the scarcity of really great espresso in actual coffee shops and you'll appreciate how much effort quality espresso actually is. It was invented as a way to serve freshly brewed coffee quickly, not to enhance quality. Unless you really want to immerse yourself in coffee geekery and spend a lot of money on equipment then stick to using great coffee in whichever brewer floats your boat and leave espresso drinks as a treat to be served by professionals (if you're lucky enough to live somewhere near a good espresso bar)

Ah but espresso is the coolest coffee. Everyone knows that*

*Especially Rapha

Firstly:

tl;dr

Second:

Espresso is cool but I've completely given up on it at home. I use a french press exclusively now and will get an aeropress, filter cone and chemex when I can be bothered. I don't like to compromise quality based on my budget. If it's to be mediocre espresso or no espresso I'll take no espresso.

It's still a flat white for me when I'm out (though in Glasgow there are only two places that make a decent one)

Have you noticed a difference

No, I've noticed that the 53mm tamper I bought doesn't fit in the basket for some reason, meantime without a proper tamp the shot runs too fast obviously and tastes terrible (again obviously).

Also, if you don't use the pressurised basket do you need to have a classic tamper, rather than the one on the machine, so that you can get the pressure on the puck?

Yeah.

Rich, I've just checked both baskets with my verniers and they're both 53mm straight sided. They don't seem to taper at all. I think what's more annoying is that the tamper that comes on the machine is a rather rounded 51mm which, when in the basket, seems to be about a cm too small!!
What type of tamper did you buy? Could you file it down a little, or would that pretty much ruin it?

I bought the 53mm one from AnotherCoffee online. Haven't any verniers to hand but it definitely doesn't fit in the basket (and there's no chance i got the wrong one sent to me, because if it was a 58mm that would be really obvious).

Will just send it back if I can't figure a solution (I don't have access to a lathe, would be useful- filing isn't going to be precise enough but hey, I don't want to bother with that anyway).

Tamper that comes with the machine is poor, don't even consider it a tamper really, as you don't need to tamp with the pressurised basket anyway.

Agree with all this, especially the thermal stability of the PF, it's pretty much non-existent.

Was under the impression that the pumps were over quoted, said to produce 15 bar but only allowing 9 bar, maybe I have been misinformed. Also I was under the impression that the steam and brew temps were different but agreed that only having one boiler in a machine is rubbish.

bad news and so on

Want a new machine now! Damn. ;-)

I'm not buying anything until i have bought a new grinder though. Christmas present to self.

Agree with all this, especially the thermal stability of the PF, it's pretty much non-existent.

Was under the impression that the pumps were over quoted, said to produce 15 bar but only allowing 9 bar, maybe I have been misinformed. Also I was under the impression that the steam and brew temps were different but agreed that only having one boiler in a machine is rubbish.

I know what you mean about single boilers but in case anyone's reading and thinks the only good machine is a dual boiler, here's a brief expansion; If your machine has an actual boiler vessel with two settings for brew and steam then that's a better proposition, I'd assumed your machine was a thermoblock machine which just draws water from the reservoir and flash heats it as it passes over a piece of hot metal. Simple single boiler machines (like classic and silvia) can produce good coffee, they're just inconvenient for making more than a couple of milk drinks.

Heat exchanger (HX) machines and commercial lever machines also have a single boiler and can deliver both brew and steam temperatures simultaneously all day long.

Heat exchanger (HX) machines and commercial lever machines also have a single boiler and can deliver both brew and steam temperatures simultaneously all day long.

And cost upwards of £1000

I know what you mean about single boilers but in case anyone's reading and thinks the only good machine is a dual boiler, here's a brief expansion; If your machine has an actual boiler vessel with two settings for brew and steam then that's a better proposition, I'd assumed your machine was a thermoblock machine which just draws water from the reservoir and flash heats it as it passes over a piece of hot metal. Simple single boiler machines (like classic and silvia) can produce good coffee, they're just inconvenient for making more than a couple of milk drinks.

Heat exchanger (HX) machines and commercial lever machines also have a single boiler and can deliver both brew and steam temperatures simultaneously all day long.

You might be right. I will have a think about that. I'm getting more and more tempted to ebay my machine and buy a new one.

Boiler assumption was based on this article: http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/july2002.html which claims Delonghi machines have a stainless steel boiler. So, hardly offering great temp stability, but probably better than a thermoblock. I'll have to have a better think about it and possibly open up the machine to have a peek at the internals, purely out of interest like...

I've got Has Bean's Kicker blend in the hopper today and fuck me it's awesome. There's a real effervescence to it, genuinely sherberty and so so zingy without making you pull a face like a dog's arse. Recommended if you like bright espresso

My machine's struggling at the moment. I think the pump has lost a lot of efficiency after it was whilst run empty the other day (I'd left the go button on and the timer came on). I'm going to descale it when I get a chance and see if this helps.

There's also an annoyingly large amount of water coming from the drain pipe - any ideas as to why the overflow would output so much water whilst the machine is heating? The drip tray doesn't catch it all so it ends up on the bench. It could be accumulated condensed water off the case but I'm not sure.

Time for..

? :)

There's a good chance the pump may be damaged, they really don't like being run dry, is it rotary or vibe?

Dunno about the leakage, could be the autofill not sensing the water level? Try removing the probe and scouring it clean.

That shiny box may look pretty but it's no way better than your Bezzera, you really can't beat a real commercial machine. A prosumer e61 like that will feel really tinny, you'll find the drip tray a total pain, the boiler will be smaller so less temp stable...

In other news, business was hardly brisk at the shop today so we made a little vid. Quality looked much better on the iphone :(

YouTube - Kicker Blend at Peel & Peel, Retropolitain

speak to this man

he knows everything

Hippy, what is the shiny shiny machine in your post?

to go back to the people contemplating improving cheap machines, I struggled with the cost/space of espresso machines and went for an aeropress and haven't looked back since. Best advice I ever received of lfgss.

One down side of the aeropress is if you're trying to make more than a couple of coffee's so on the look out for a decent sized french press that can make 6-7 coffees in one go. Any particular brands to go for or avoid?

Hippy, what is the shiny shiny machine in your post?

I dunno, I just google searched "dual boiler" or something coz I knew there were nice shiny machines about.

There's a good chance the pump may be damaged, they really don't like being run dry, is it rotary or vibe?

Dunno about the leakage, could be the autofill not sensing the water level? Try removing the probe and scouring it clean.

That shiny box may look pretty but it's no way better than your Bezzera, you really can't beat a real commercial machine. A prosumer e61 like that will feel really tinny, you'll find the drip tray a total pain, the boiler will be smaller so less temp stable...

In other news, business was hardly brisk at the shop today so we made a little vid. Quality looked much better on the iphone :(

YouTube - Kicker Blend at Peel & Peel, Retropolitain

The pump still pumps. I'm descaling the machine now to see what happens.

Not sure about the autofill.. perhaps. I'll have to strip it down again.

bombcup, I need a machine that has more gauges on it, plain and simple. The Bezzera is just too basic. If I can get some LEDs flashing and some digital temperature readouts.. all the better. If it actually makes coffee, well, that's just a nice bonus. ;)

Roughly how much ££ would be required to get a very small commercial grade machine?

And if looking on eBay what search terms should I be using- i.e. make/model and so forth?

hippy. i have anice gaggia babyD that works fine if you need a stop-gap machine :-)

Any good?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gaggia-Classic-Espresso-Machine-/120641329652?pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers&hash=item1c16c899f4