Congestion Charge goes to £25 in October

Thank fuck for that, I nearly had a panic attack.

You could've always tried doing tricks as you commute... proper freestyle stuff and none of that mucking around in playgrounds doing wheelies but going nowhere. Finally I would've agreed that tricks had a purpose and might've considered learning some.

if this actuly happens it will be a small step towards something good, but it will be gutted by discounts for residents of the c charge area so the k&C 4x4s will still be able to do the 1/2 mile school run. also they will add exceptions to all kinds of small cars, which still pollute. do i think it will make the roads safer... marginally

i think HGVs should be banned from the C charge zone from 8am to 8pm, that would make the roads safer for cyclists, although would probably end up with more brain dead ipod/ mobile phone peds stepping into the street.

as far as global warming this is not a solution, its not even close to the smallest bit of a start of one. and we will not see one.

this is a farce, as the further they move the congestion charge, particularly to the west ie chelsea and kensington; the more of these cars are exempt as people live in the area ;)

The congestion charge covers the last two miles of my commute only, and central London is always going to be busy, what with very wealthy people/commercial vehicles.

Extend it to the M25, and maybe I can have some fresh air on my way into work.

Forget this reduced congestion charge for smaller cars, too - only electric cars should be exempt. I know the long-tailpipe problem, but this is about congestion and quality of air in the city, where I do all my breathing...

velocity boy You could've always tried doing tricks as you commute... proper freestyle stuff and none of that mucking around in playgrounds doing wheelies but going nowhere. Finally I would've agreed that tricks had a purpose and might've considered learning some.

I just like going fast and dodging things on my commute.
Tricks are for impressing people with your generic bike skills whilst drinking.

*London Assembly Liberal Democrats will ask tomorrow why Ken Livingstone has poured another £31 millions of taxpayers' money into congestion charge contractor Capita.

At a London Assembly budget committee hearing, Lib Dem members will grill the mayor on his new contract with Capita Plc as well as the original deal that Transport for London entered into.

Sally Hamwee, Lib Dem chair of the London Assembly, warned that there were at least three serious unanswered questions about the mayor's deal with Capita:

'The mayor told us traffic in the charging zone would fall by ten to 15 per cent,' she said. "In fact it is just one per cent higher than that. He has to explain why that means the net income has been halved from £130million to just £65 million.

'Despite a 27 per cent increase in half-year profits in July, Capita claims it is not making a profit on congestion charging, and Mayor Livingstone gives them an extra £31 million. We need to know whether Capita can come back every year to ask for more cash.*
(Lib Dems, 2003)

Or, in other words, the Congestion Charge was never intended to work - it was intended as a revenue generator and, when it failed to generate enough revenue for Crapita, the good taxpayers of Olde London Towne were forced to shore up Crapita's profits.

I'm well aware that Crapita no longer administer the C-Charge, but the pessimist in me doubts that the new operators are going to do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Something tells me that IBM will be making a hefty chunk of change and that the rest of the revenue will be pumped into London's transport network - another public service that is being run as a private, profit-making business.

I'd love to think that this new charge is about something other than making money (and god knows, I hate idiots that feel like a 4x4 is necessary to navigate the cratered, pock-marked landscape that is Old Brompton Road) but - as already opined - this is just going to be another slight inconvenience for Araminta. Her husband Jeremy will simply put up the already-exorbitant rent he charges on those buy-to-lets he bought in awful Hackney to cover the costs.

I'm sure Private Eye will probably dissect this in a far more comprehensive manner than I can.

Skullhead I would also like to see trains that allow bikes on board when it would be ACTUALLY USEFUL to everyone. I never want a folder but if I move to the burbs I'll have to bloody buy one eerrr

Why don't you think the congestion charge all across London would be a good thing Tommy the Brick? Its not as if there are any less cars on the north circular than on Marylebone road.

Several things. The current method of enforcing the congestion charge is very expensive, over such a large area the cost would be much better put towards a national road pricing scheme similar to which I posted earlier, After all most reasonable size towns have traffic problems like London.

I believe the car has it's place, it is a very useful tool when it come to many tasks and when transporting more than one person (ideally 3 or more) or large objects it makes great sense so I do not believe it is right to make car ownership too expensive for the average family, within London or not. What need to change is car usage. I know congestion charging within m25 would do that to a small amount but remember people who live inside the c zone get discounts. This would mean that London would need to be zoned. The most common sense would be central London (the current c zone) inner London everywhere else up to say zone 3 and outer London zones 4-6 + the remainder. There would have to be this segregation because the further you go out of central London the wider the fingers of train lines go and the harder it gets to get around many areas without a car. Remember not everyone can realistically cycle. I know reduced congestion mean better buses so this could solve many problems but still there are many many people for whom driving is the only realistic option. I am saying this as a reason for why London would have to be zoned.

When you start to look at this I believe that it becomes clear that the technical and particle problems of having a M25 / London wide c zone mean that it would be much better to start off on a national road pricing scheme. Also many area just out side the m25 are just as bad as London e.t.c I know I am not being overly clear but I hope you get where I am coming from. So I guess I am not really against a m25 c zone just if you go that large an area you may as well go the whole hog.

chris crash if this actuly happens it will be a small step towards something good, but it will be gutted by discounts for residents of the c charge area so the k&C 4x4s will still be able to do the 1/2 mile school run. also they will add exceptions to all kinds of small cars, which still pollute. do i think it will make the roads safer... marginally.

Exactly. The number of chelsea tractors I see when I'm riding into Imperial is ridiculous. If I'm leaving uni between 3-4pm, Old Brompton Road is hilarious. All the little brats in their stupid school uniforms (with little straw hats - "awwww"?) sat in the back of a 4x4 or Bentley! Perhaps it should be based on the combined value and emissions, i.e. if you drive a Ferrari in central London, £80 a day please, no exceptions.

From the BBC page, some RAC representative:

Changing this will confuse the public and reduce support and trust for future initiatives.

How stupid do they think people are? I'm sure they know that they're sat behind a massive car. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but when you pay the congestion charge you give them your number plate and then immediately they call up your call details, so they'll just know what the emissions are from that. Not exactly like the person paying has do any more thinking than at present. Stupid RAC fools.

And the National Alliance Against Tolls said: "This move is not based on logic but on the whipping up of prejudices against those who use these particular vehicles.

Oh fuck off! So these people who drive these particular vehicles need a 4x4 or Bentley or Roller in London where people walk faster than the traffic at peak times?

Boris Johnson, the Conservative candidate for London Mayor, said: "In effect, the mayor has just given the green light for richer people to buy smaller cars and enter the zone for free while families who struggle with one big car are left feeling the pinch."

These people who are rich are going to drive in regardless. The only thing that will stop them is a) financial ruin, b) insanity or c) me killing them. So, if they're going to drive in the c charge zone, they might as well be in a small, more efficient car.

Those families who struggle with just one big car? My heart bleeds for them. Those who really struggle probably can't afford to run a car and live in London, especially if they're driving in central London because they live in central London. They're the people on the buses and tube.

By far the most sensible plan I've heard is to tax petrol more heavily, and scrap road tax and congestion charges altogether.

The further you drive, the more fuel you use, the more tax you pay. Similarly, if you drive a less economical car you automatically pay more tax.

Simple, and it cuts out hundreds of bureaucratic jobs, which is probably why it will never happen.

Sparky By far the most sensible plan I've heard is to tax petrol more heavily, and scrap road tax and congestion charges altogether.

The further you drive, the more fuel you use, the more tax you pay. Similarly, if you drive a less economical car you automatically pay more tax.

Simple, and it cuts out hundreds of bureaucratic jobs, which is probably why it will never happen.

The problem comes for people for whom there is no alternative to driving. We will have to run a full road pricing system eventually so why not get on with it. The government are just dilly dallying because they know it will be unpopular because people think it will cost them more. For many it will not.

Also a sharper rise just in fuel can have too great an effect on inflation as whole causing problems for the economy in many ways.

Sparky By far the most sensible plan I've heard is to tax petrol more heavily, and scrap road tax and congestion charges altogether.

Thank you.

tommy the possibilty of what your idea of zones in london would quickly become scares me very deeply, i see ring of steelesque check points at the borders of all the zones manned nearly 24 hrs, the locations of all people traveling with in london monitored. cars by the checkpoints, people on public transit by their oyster cards, and bikes by some cycle regestary, and the check points.

maybe im paranoid, maybe i'm a pessimist, truth be told i hold no hope for the future of humanity.

I know Chris that is what I do not like about it if you went London wide or Nation wide you would have to put up with it. Bike would be harder to track and will prob be the last thing to be bugged at any rate.

yes, but eventually it will happen, and probably before food starts becoming scarce, because most people out there bought that a c-charge, and driving hybrid, or ethonal powered cars,and re-using plastic bags would end global warming.

Run for the Hills!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Snehl2bAk

wow i saw a fixed gear. 2 nobrake levers and calipers and a tandome. video needs arrospok

So I guess non of you own, use a car or can drive?

I for one do not own a car, but i do on occasion have to hire either a car or van.
I would prefer not to as it is not cheap, and I already own my bikes!

I usually hire them at weekends, and very rarely leave the East End, except to
drop off stuff for the charity shop at the studio.

dont driver, if i cant shift it by bike, then i can shift it in lots of trips by bike

We own a small car, it gets used maybe once every two weeks.

I'm in favour of the system being how it is now plus increases in the charge. Petrol is approximately 60% tax, keep it like that as to raise that tax discriminates against those who live in rural areas and who actually do need a car. Keep the car tax system as it is, it already discriminates on car size, good! Raise the CG to £20 for small cars, that is still less than a taxi, raise to to £40 for gas guzzlers and use part of the revenue raised to enforce reduced emissions from buses, taxis and mini cabs. Oh and immeadiately extend the emissions zone to include all "trade" type vehicles including vans. Then we might be able to breath.

PS: Vote Ken, he is far from perfect but its him or Boris, nuff said!

I cant shift tables, chairs, sofas, beds by bike, and I aint gonna take them on the tube, or carry them miles down the road?

I'm not having a go, but there are times when you need to use a vehicle. Even if it means getting a mate with a car to help?

I am not a student, I have lived and worked in London for over 10 years, I have my own design studio, and recently bought
my own flat, so as much as I hate the heavily congested roads, sometimes, you need to use something other than a bike?

what is this voting i keep hearing people talk of, is there no escape? every where i go around here collage girls come up to me "are yo going to the primary?" thats finally over and now this ken or boris thing...

Will it ever end?

chris crash Will it ever end?

No. The illusion of 'choice' must be maintained at all costs.

tomiskinky I cant shift tables, chairs, sofas, beds by bike, and I aint gonna take them on the tube, or carry them miles down the road?

I'm not having a go, but there are times when you need to use a vehicle. Even if it means getting a mate with a car to help?

I am not a student, I have lived and worked in London for over 10 years, I have my own design studio, and recently bought
my own flat, so as much as I hate the heavily congested roads, sometimes, you need to use something other than a bike?

bike+trailer= sorted. i have been in cars and buses, but if i have the opportunity and the time i would much rather shift things with a bike. i'm ot having a go, i dont care what you do, as long as it does not effect me.

turpe [quote]chris crash Will it ever end?

No. The illusion of 'choice' must be maintained at all costs.[/quote]

cant we just get on with fascism its so much more efficient.

(joke)