Thoughts on the new Witcomb pricing?

I'm in somnething of a quandary.

I'm only into Witcomb's for a century, I could tell the daft old sods to shove it if I wanted.

I can't quite decide where i stand.

Historically, Witcomb was a fair size organization. Notions that Barrie personally built every Witcomb frame are nonsense.

If you speak to him and Ernie, they both feel pretty much shafted by the whole 80's-Taiwan-alu-mtb influx. Neither are they desperately keen to be selling £100 hybrids to the locals and repairing their shitbox bikes.

In many ways its a disgrace that they've ended up in such a hole. Their unbroken history both in ownership and even premises is unequalled in this City, this country, and probably globally.

reference to the atrocious new website will reveal that redevelopment of the Deptford site is afoot, to the extent that they're clearing out the overdue repair bikes etc.

I kmow I'm a bit biased, but the old duffers deserve a break. As it stands their legacy is a shitty bike shop in SE8 and some press clippings.

The price hikes appear outrageous, but the going rate for a Witcomb road frame was 8-9 hundred sheets. The track frames were bizarrely cheap.

Tony Mutton is, however, a cock.

A while back he tried to offer the bespoke paint thing, but nowt happened. His design for diversity nonsense must surely be motivated by the fact he's deaf, gay and Pagan. All fine and good at Islington Council, but hardly a recipe for quality frame design.

The Paul Smith Mercian was hugely overpriced and shite, but it served its purpose. The framebuilder and the suitmaker both did ok.

Dunno.

I know why I ordered mine and I know where I ordered it from.

I've ordered mine at a curious time in Witcomb's history.

dear points of view - why, oh why,

sorry, wrong forum

Really wish the old boys the best and hope they make a decent living.

What sits really uncomfortable for me is that some dodgy self publicising cunt has hijacked the value and reputation of two generations. At least Rapha had a gentle nod to the traditions and sensibilities of cycling -

'Tony Dafoney' seems to be jumping all over this to further inflate his wallet and ego with little regard or respect to what has gone before [barber poling the seat tube, referring to himself as a 'semi-pro cyclist' when he is nothing of the sort]

Bringing prices up to date and in line with your competitors is understandable and recommended but what our Tony seems to think is that if you charge 1500 notes then people will think its worth 1500 notes - but they don't and to be quite frank the bike builds and paint jobs aren't really that special - My Titanium custom built Seven cost less than that!

Really hope that Barrie and Ernie don't get burnt on the bonfire of this Tony Malone Vanity

How about this one then? Cycle Candy

this tony malony seems a bit of a joke. All this design 'qualifications' are quite questionable. I actually interview candidates for the chartered society of designers (CSD) where he is a member. Whenever they call me in for my board duty I can be sure i'll get to see some pretty horrible work. They take anyone who can switch on a computer. My personal criteria for accepting candidates has gone so low by now that I just pass them if they won't do any serious damage to their clients. In this case that may have happened actually. pretty bad for the profession. Marketing is taking over.

I went to the cycleshow, principally to see my frame.

I took the opportunity to ask Barrie about the changes to the business.

We spoke for a fair while, but the important points were:

Had not investment been made in the business, he was planning to knock it on the head next year.

He's not been making money on the framebuilding for ages because he does everything himself, from collecting the tubes to ferrying it to the enameller etc. Also been charging the same as CONdor's off the peg for his full-custom.

The builders he trained are charging big money for their frames, why shouldn't he?

Just at the show he's taken forty frame orders.

Having met Tony Mutton, I can confirm he's a total cock.

They are some long track ends..

there is big money and there is taking the piss.
£600 for an off the peg and £1200 custom which puts you above jacksons and mather because of your heritage. uber bespoke everything in 853 with metallic paint/lug lining/pauls dropouts etc etc £1600.
anything else is greedy

if that's your bike, it looks sweet..

pre or post tony dafoney pricing?

frame looks real purty. did they get a consultant in for the red bits or did you just ask for a red headtube and seat tube band?

sell it straight away.

for a huge profit.

ImOnCrank? are you listening? ;)

wayne_f14 if that's your bike, it looks sweet..

pre or post tony dafoney pricing?

It is, and she's a babe. A robo-babe... Baberaham Lincoln, if you will.

Barrie-priced, too ;-)

MrSmith frame looks real purty. did they get a consultant in for the red bits or did you just ask for a red headtube and seat tube band?

Sadly, they are just red bits. Which saved me about a grand.

For some clever desgner type to do something clever with. I couldn't manage it...

After much deliberation I trekked down to Deptford at the end of September. I spoke with Barrie, had the rudamentary measurements taken, and put down a deposit for a track frame for which he quoted me £500 - £600. All very reasonable for what I'm sure will be a very nice bike made by a firm with well known expertise and experience. Needless to say, having finally made the decision and to at last be waiting for my lovely new bike rather than just daydreaming about it, I was feeling pretty good. The smallness of the firm, the localishness, the initial phone call in which I spoke to Ernie who chatted off on various tangents and asides about the firm, the fact that Barrie seemed like a real nice bloke, the kids on their Saturday jobs in the workshop, and the fact that the shop smells of workshop rather than the sterile stench of corporate bullshit... these are all factors just made it even better. I am of course still looking forward to the bike, but what I've read above is saddening. I hope it works out for Barrie and Ernie.

Seems like it's a last resort but this Malone tosser sounds like he's raping the business.

Mercian due December, made to measure, 725 reynolds, chromed track ends, fancy lugs, special paint - £820 - six month waiting list though - that seems about right to me

the-smiling-buddha Mercian due December, made to measure, 725 reynolds, chromed track ends, fancy lugs, special paint - £820 - six month waiting list though - that seems about right to me

this really shows you ridiculous the new prices are. barrie does deserve more for his frames. but more than mercian is properly pushing it. mr maloney seems to have made himself enemy no.1.

Let's kill 'im

that might be because he seems to be a lying, manipulative little sh!t

the way he promotes himself as a designer is, to be honest, deceitful and untruthful - to quote from his own website

He is responsible for the design of three typefaces, ShaunSans, Brockley Serif and DiversitySans, the latter being considered as a UK standard for accessibility. - absolute horseshit. There exists no external appraisal of diversity sans and neither is it available thro any type foundry

What seems to be happening is that tony malone thinks that if he broadcasts a statement then it is automatically a fact.

As a deigner it really raises my hackles to see twats like this spouting absolute bollocks as it runs counter to any hope for designers to be inclusive and informative.

But the main point on a forum like this is what kind of damage he could potentially do to a prestigous and historical marque like Witcomb.

His hijacking of a signature motif from another bike builder, positioning of himself as a bike designer, describing himself as a semi pro cyclist [FFS] and a price hike that seems as over inflated as his ego is some cause for concern

wayne_f14 oh for fucks sake

you're so vain you probably think this song is about you

I thought my mate having his own wiki page was a bit smug, but to be fair he has 3 guiness records, rowed across the atlantic with his mum, walked to the north pole and is currently starting his life in politics. So all in all he's probably earned it.

Was tempted to vandalise tony's entry, but by the looks of the spelling / grammar, someone beat me to it...

In all fairness, if they're selling at that price, then they're obviously priced right. And it's easier for a business to get cheaper than more expensive. (As this thread proves).

That having been said, they're now at a similar price level to bespoke titanium De Rosa frames and pushing on the 'money is no object' envelope of Serottas and the like.

The only google result for "Brockley Serif" comes from the 'official' Tony Maloney website.

I smell something...

mr_tom In all fairness, if they're selling at that price, then they're obviously priced right. And it's easier for a business to get cheaper than more expensive. (As this thread proves).

That having been said, they're now at a similar price level to bespoke titanium De Rosa frames and pushing on the 'money is no object' envelope of Serottas and the like.

they're not obviously priced right at all. I was quoted £500-£600 for a custom track in september - will they honour that quote? like fuck they will

I hope they go insolvent so i can pick up a few cheap frames.

mr_tom In all fairness, if they're selling at that price, then they're obviously priced right. And it's easier for a business to get cheaper than more expensive. (As this thread proves).

That having been said, they're now at a similar price level to bespoke titanium De Rosa frames and pushing on the 'money is no object' envelope of Serottas and the like.

Barrie's point is that he tought Serotta, so why houldn't he charge Serotta money?

Well, being a Graphic Designer - I ain't got a clue who this bod is?
My business partner talks at lots of seminars and knows quiet a few luminaries, but we ain't a clue where this fella popped up from?

Not sure what his role is, but his own site is rubbish? All the links have some gardening rubbish going on... what a load of utter portentousness!
I'm sure Whitcomb needs to up prices in a competitive market, and one where I would think they have greatly undersold their product.

jv I was quoted £500-£600 for a custom track in september - will they honour that quote? like fuck they will

I'd be very surprised if Barrie didn't honour his quote.