• So are they advocating wearing summer clothing in winter.

  • Bright clothes do not show up at night. Reflective items do.

  • As do good lights :-)

  • I am not someone who says all peds / cyclists should wear bright clothes in the dark, but as a driver I know that when it is dark (and especially when it is dark and wet) it is very VERY easy not to see people (including cyclists with lights) until very late, .

    So knowing this I assume you drive really slowly to compensate for your lack of ability to see people (It's called risk compensation)

  • No, risk compensation is adjusting your behaviour to maintain the same level of perceived risk to yourself. Adjusting to maintain the same level of hazard to other people is called driving properly.

  • If everyone started wearing reflective as a normal clothing and drivers compensate their risk assessment for those with reflective clothing, then how will those without such clothing deal with it?

  • I am not someone who says all peds / cyclists should wear bright clothes in the dark, but as a driver I know that when it is dark (and especially when it is dark and wet) it is very VERY easy not to see people (including cyclists with lights) until very late, whereas decent reflective material shows up miles away.

    There are two ways that are safe. Assume no-one can see you. Dress brightly. The former can work well as a ped - stick to the paths and do not cross the road if it involves being near cars. It is harder for the former to work when you are on the road.

    or just drive slower and be constantly on the lookout for other road users. it's annoying but what are the alternatives?

  • Or get a bigger car with higher suspension so they don't slow you down too much.

    #rod liddle tips

  • or just drive slower and be constantly on the lookout for other road users. it's annoying but what are the alternatives?

    That's assuming other drivers give a shit or even bother trying to see you/looking out for you. I personally make it as easy for them to see me as possible and don't go for the current trend in black jerseys.
    Yes, I shouldn't need to take that stance but reducing the chance of not being seen is my choice.

  • Who said that?

  • If everyone started wearing reflective as a normal clothing and drivers compensate their risk assessment for those with reflective clothing, then how will those without such clothing deal with it?

    There won't be anyone not wearing reflective clothing if everyone is wearing it.

  • http://talesoftheroad.direct.gov.uk/be-bright.php

    This came out a couple of years ago, I actually asked the people running this campaign in schools for evidence that a) hi-vis works and b) Why the responsibility for errant driving (as in the boxes that actually do the damage) was being thrown onto the shoulders of young kids and not the drivers themselves..
    Came out with some random crap that was meaningless and had no supporting evidence to show that hi-vis works..
    It's a complete fucking victim blaming nonsense...grrrrr

    It's pretty obvious that it is the 'look but don't see' brigade that makes the massive difference, hi-vis just doesn't actually change things, nor do christmas tree lights..

  • ^lighten up mate

  • ...Rant...

    IMO and IME as a driver reflective wear makes a big difference. Yes that's anecdotal evidence and opinion, but I would be very shocked if a survey of drivers didn't find cyclists who have things like pedal reflectors much easier to spot than those without.

    Of course drivers have a responsibility to drive safely and proportionately, but equally they are humans and not infallible. Suggesting that cyclists do something as simple as wear appropriately visible clothing is not shifting blame or responsibility, it's just common sense with no disadvantage.

    Also the point about bright clothing making no difference is BS as well. It might make no difference when it's dark. But in low light it is easier to spot people and I don't care what that survey about modern life having so much hiviz that our brain no longer recognises hiviz any more said.

  • When this thread is called the helmet thread, is that because of the people that post in it?

    (In other words, can you have your hivis chat elsewhere?)

  • No, lets keep it all in here, and add the "daytime running lights" chat too.

  • You need lights for running now, fucking ridiculous.

  • IMO and IME as a driver reflective wear makes a big difference. Yes that's anecdotal evidence and opinion, but I would be very shocked if a survey of drivers didn't find cyclists who have things like pedal reflectors much easier to spot than those without.

    Of course drivers have a responsibility to drive safely and proportionately, but equally they are humans and not infallible. Suggesting that cyclists do something as simple as wear appropriately visible clothing is not shifting blame or responsibility, it's just common sense with no disadvantage.

    Also the point about bright clothing making no difference is BS as well. It might make no difference when it's dark. But in low light it is easier to spot people and I don't care what that survey about modern life having so much hiviz that our brain no longer recognises hiviz any more said.

    Is it easier to spot people in hi vis, care to produce some clear evidence for that?
    As I said, the problem is looking but not seeing. Want to ask the emergency services how many casualties they have of their employees when they have red & blue flashing lights and are hi-vis'd to the nines?

    I don't need anything festooned in hi-vis to be able to safely negotiate it if it comes into my 'hazard' area. That should be the norm, I have good eyesight & reasonable cognative abilities, I realise some don't & don't even meet the minimum eyesight criteria, some just have shit attitudes full stop which is even worse.. However I did a lot of miles (300k+) in the first 13 years of my 21 years of driving with 8yrs commuting in/around/through London from N.Herts (the latter 8 I've hardly driven) i've never even come close to harming anyone. That shouldn't be exceptional, that should be bog std, I don't need you to be wearing hi-vis to see you.

    What about dark coloured vehicles (black being one of the highest sales in the UK), do we ask them to put reflectives strips all over them, what about pedestrians, people with push chairs, old folk crossing the road?..that's right it is BS
    People wearing hi-vis panders to the victim blaming culture, it propagates itself in the same stupid way helmet wearing does..another bogus bit of kit that doesn't work & makes things worse.

    Haha..that's not a rant...lol

  • People wearing** hi-vis panders to** the victim blaming culture, it propagates itself in the same stupid way helmet wearing does..another bogus bit of kit that doesn't work & makes things worse.

    Haha..that's not a rant...lol

    Black and white and yellow all over

  • Is it easier to spot people in hi vis, care to produce some clear evidence for that?

    Using my own eyes as a test (driving around New Forest, tree laden roads with lots of shadow even in the day) yes high vis is much easier for me to see than a rider wearing all black.
    Yes I can see the rider dressed in black but not until I am nearer and it helps if I can see the rider well in advance so if it helps me it will help less observant drivers too. I also notice different behaviour from drivers - but that is too much anecdotal.

    And to keep on helmet topic, I don't wear a helmet.

  • What about dark coloured vehicles (black being one of the highest sales in the UK), do we ask them to put reflectives strips all over them, what about pedestrians, people with push chairs, old folk crossing the road?..that's right it is BS
    Haha..that's not a rant...lol

    Dark coloured vehicles still have high powered lights front and back...

    and I for one fully approve of mandatory hi-vis reflective strips on all people who reach retirement age. I'd go to bingo with a torch just for jokes.

    um, on topic - I don't wear a helmet either.

  • Want to ask the emergency services how many casualties they have of their employees when they have red & blue flashing lights and are hi-vis'd to the nines?

    That only makes sense if you can get them to switch off the flashing lights and hi vis for a bit and see if they get more or less casualties as a result.

    Just saying "you're taking casualties so your defenses must be bogus" is silly. It's like pointing out to the SAS that their soldiers are sometimes captured and killed while wearing camouflage, so clearly it doesn't work to hide them, they should stop bothering with it.

  • If only they were wearing hi viz. And helmets.

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Remember kids... always wear a helmet. (The almighty bikeradar helmet thread)

Posted by Avatar for ThisIsRob_(RJM) @ThisIsRob_(RJM)

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