Remember kids... always wear a helmet. (The almighty bikeradar helmet thread)

^ And by logical progression there is a possibility that wearing bright clothes and a helmet reduces your possibility of personal injury in some circumstances.

Factor in the risk compensation from the rider and car drivers and the opposite could in some circumstances also be true

ie some car drivers may see a helmetted rider in hi viz as a safe experienced riders and occaisionally give them less road space or drive less cautiously around them, increasing the risk of a collision and therefore injury.

I take it you have never driven down a pitch black country road late at night. Visibility is an absolute nightmare and anyone with any sense at all will do their utmost to be seen. Lights are obviously a legal requirement but retroreflective is fucking sensible too (unless of course you are someone refusing to wear it as a rational response to the relative value of your own life.)

Funnily enough, if we are using anecdotes, I frequently drive down country lanes at night in my car. I have no problem seeing anything in my path if I have headlights on. Last night I saw a Badger.
The problem is that if we are expected to be wearing reflectives then drivers can drive less carefully, and by wearing them you exacerbate the problem. Put some of your energy into writing to your MP to ask him to get the sentences for careless drivers reviewed.
It would do more good than making up all sorts of stuff about your own perception of risk.

My god this thread is on fire...
Such passion about this important subject is impressive

Long may the debate continue

My god this thread is on fire...
Such passion about this important subject is impressive

Long may the debate continue

No, stay....some one will make a point.

There are three things that I believe are fairly established. Can anybody sensibly argue that the following are not true?

1) It has been established that wearing a bicycle helmet *may *reduce the risk of *some *head injuries in *some *circumstances.

2) Wearing high visibility or bright clothing means that more light is reflected from your clothing which means that there is a *possibility *that you *may *be more visible to other people in *some *circumstances.

If these points are fair statements then surely by wearing bright clothes and a helmet you are marginally reducing the risk to yourself in a very limited number of circumstances?

Needs more bold type.

Factor in the risk compensation from the rider and car drivers and the opposite could in some circumstances also be true

ie some car drivers may see a helmetted rider in hi viz as a safe experienced riders and occaisionally give them less road space or drive less cautiously around them, increasing the risk of a collision and therefore injury.

If I remember correctly there was a survey someone did, on one route, that sort of agreed with this. Think he also did the journey with long hair to see if that made a difference.

Has Spain recently made helmets compulsory?

Also that local governace, the ones who are supposed to inforce the rules are not enforcing this. Read this in an article so no idea what the truth is.

Has Spain recently made helmets compulsory?

They also tried to make riding near the centre of the lane illegal too, currently if you were in a collision with a motorist, even if they're at fault, you have to demonstrate why you're not riding near the kerbs.

Fortunately they did one thing right which is;

It is forbidden to drive using any headpiece or telephone ear-piece connected to equipment for receiving or reproducing sound.

Which applied to motorised vehicles only AFAIK.

It's easy to see at night, car lights are well fucking bright. If your vision isn't up to scratch then you shouldn't be driving, if your night vision isn't up to scratch then you shouldn't be driving with your lights off in the dark. The hardest times to see on the road are dawn and dusk where everything takes on the kind of grey tones that only a Mancunian has eyes adjusted for.

If I remember correctly there was a survey someone did, on one route, that sort of agreed with this. Think he also did the journey with long hair to see if that made a difference.

yep, some chap at the University of Bath, cars gave him a bit more space without a helmet and marginally more when in a blond wig and no helmet. I think it was about a three or four inch more space albeit at a gap already of over a yard, possibly 4 feet.

Can't be arsed to dig out the exact data though so you will have to put up with uncited rememberings of something I have read and seen quoted a myriad of times on t'internet.

Can't be arsed to dig out the exact data though so you will have to put up with uncited rememberings of something I have read and seen quoted a myriad of times on t'internet.

Found via google, it's an old study done back in 2006, it's safe to says quite a lots of us have heard of it;

Bicyclists who wear protective helmets are more likely to be struck by passing vehicles, new research suggests.

Drivers pass closer when overtaking cyclists wearing helmets than when overtaking bare-headed cyclists, increasing the risk of a collision, the research has found.

Dr Ian Walker, a traffic psychologist from the University of Bath, used a bicycle fitted with a computer and an ultrasonic distance sensor to record data from over 2,500 overtaking motorists in Salisbury and Bristol.

Dr Walker, who was struck by a bus and a truck in the course of the experiment, spent half the time wearing a cycle helmet and half the time bare-headed. He was wearing the helmet both times he was struck.

He found that drivers were as much as twice as likely to get particularly close to the bicycle when he was wearing the helmet.

I'm taking that "lol" personally, I think you should adjust your language.

AThe closest parallel I can think of is that anyone with any decency will say that a young women who wears little clothing, gets blind drunk and gets into an illegal minicab late at night and ends up a victim of a sexual assault is 0% to blame despite the fact that with hindsight we can all make suggestions to her as to how she might have behaved differently to reduce her chances of becoming a victim.

Have some nerg for this little jem

Fuck is this still not resolved?

ie some car drivers may see a helmetted rider in hi viz as a safe experienced riders and occaisionally give them less road space or drive less cautiously around them, increasing the risk of a collision and therefore injury.

I think it is the opposite. Drivers take more care around hi-viz riders (possibly sub consciously thinking they could hardly pull the "sorry didn't see you" card) but also because they see a hi-viz rider as less competent that a roadie.

No, stay....some one will make a point.

Needs more bold type.

he also did the journey with long hair.

Worth waiting around for lynx thanks for making some sensible points

Can't be arsed to dig out the exact data though so you will have to put up with uncited rememberings of something I have read and seen quoted a myriad of times on t'internet.

Good enough for this thread.

It's really not comparable unless you think sexual assaults can happen because someone isn't concentrating and falls on someone penis first.

The study cited by Ed is a good example of positive everyday sexism whereby drivers give women more space than men. Apply risk compensation and this would mean that we (I also drive) regard women as less competant on the road and give them more space to wobble and fall off in. One conclusion should be applied:

Women, if a car driver fails to almost kill you in a near miss it is because they are sexist pigs and deem you as incompetant road users. Do not thank them for giving you room to ride, berate them for their backward sexist attitudes. Equality for all.

It's a bad idea if you ride with 251cm bars.

Of are you relying on the anecdotal evidence that he got hit twice, both times when he was wearing a helmet?

What the research show is that taking cycle training would make a significant difference than the use of helmets.

What is this "problem" you keep referring back to?

I've got a sweaty helmet, should I clean it ? People at work are starting to notice the smell