Remember kids... always wear a helmet. (The almighty bikeradar helmet thread)

Hanging on the driver acting on their sub conscience is not good.

Wearing a helmet may or may not change the better drivers behaviour but I really don't think this comes into play when the the bad drivers either just don't care or are not actually capable of thinking about what they are doing/driving in auto pilot (not sure which but probably a mixture)

Do you want to get this one, Oliver? Seems like your area.

Yeah, should be 'subconscious'. :)

I'm not actually sure what you mean by 'hanging on' here, kerley--could you explain?

acting on their sub conscience

Do you want to get this one, Oliver? Seems like your area.

He's not gonna let you ask it twice.

Yeah, should be 'subconscious'. :)

I'm not actually sure what you mean by 'hanging on' here, kerley--could you explain?

I have never posted in here before as I was always too scared I will get bullied, I know how much people like to argue about the pros and cons etc.
I do wear a helmet, every day. It makes me look stupid, makes me hot in the summer and it makes my hair as flat as a pancake, but it makes me feel more secure. It doesn't make me more careless on the road (I did cycle without it a few times, so I know that). To be frank, I don't really like it (and I would love to wear just my forum cap) but without it I feel strange and I'm always scared that if "something" is going to happen, it's going to happen on this one occasion when my head is not protected. I'm thinking about my husband being angry, my family being upset, blah blah. Lets just say I've got a colourful imagination.

Any way I have met my mate on my way to work this morning. BTW he is a really experienced cyclist. Last night he was riding back home, took a sharp turn, damp cold road, he lost control and ended up on the ground hitting his head on the corner of the curb. I have seen this helmet today, looks pretty badly damaged, in fact I'm sure if it would be his bare head, he would have his temple in pieces. There was no busy traffic involved, no car, no truck or bus, just him, damp road and a second of misjudgement. It could happened to anybody.

I'm not writing this to convert anybody, I believe it is everybody's personal choice and I would never argue about it or judge people's choices, but I've got a feeling that if a few more helmet haters would see my mates helmet, they might have change their minds. Maybe I'm wrong...?
So I think I will continue to wear my helmet and I will more than definitely get hot and annoyed.

Please all the helmet haters be gentle with me, I take all of the negative comments really personally and might get really, really upset. Just saying...

Please all the helmet haters be gentle with me

Which helmet haters? I don't recall seeing any on this thread, but I could be wrong. There are a lot of people who object to compulsion, plenty who dislike the exaggerated claims made about the overall effectiveness of helmets, and even one or two of us who can get a bit tetchy when we see so many helmets being used incorrectly (see attached for the latest example) but it's a struggle to find anybody who really gives a fuck if you happen to decide to wear a helmet. This is in contrast to the proselytisers on the other side, who seem altogether happy to condemn anybody cycling without a helmet.

1 Attachment

Which helmet haters?

Ok maybe I shouldn't use the word haters...I just wanted to say how I personally feel abut it. I don't know any statistics, haven't read any reports etc. so I know that I would more than likely lose a battle in any sort of argument/discussion.
Maybe there are no helmet haters in this thread but I have certainly met a few in my last few years of daily cycling in London.

I hate these.

What, chintzy curtains?

;)

windows?

windows?

Outrageous glazed death devices, each and every one of them.

Hater with a helmet.
Hating it backwards style

it makes me feel more secure. It doesn't make me more careless on the road

I'd be astonished if both of these things were true, they verge on the oxymoronic.

I don't know any statistics, haven't read any reports etc.

To have chosen to wear a helmet at all, especially given your professed distaste for what you see as the costs

It makes me look stupid, makes me hot in the summer and it makes my hair as flat as a pancake

you must have read some kind of report which persuaded you that the benefits outweighed these costs. What you read might not have been a good quality report, by scientific standards, but you've actually written a report too

Last night he was riding back home, took a sharp turn, damp cold road, he lost control and ended up on the ground hitting his head on the corner of the curb. I have seen this helmet today, looks pretty badly damaged, in fact I'm sure if it would be his bare head, he would have his temple in pieces.

so even if you only read your own post, you've read a report.

Well done Lola for speaking your mind! I wear one and never tell people whether they should wear one or not. We're responsible for our own actions. Each to their own, so dont try and convince me i shouldnt wear one.

Yeah, should be 'subconscious'. :)

I'm not actually sure what you mean by 'hanging on' here, kerley--could you explain?

Yes, I knew sub conscience looked wrong when I typed it but I was being lazy!

What I mean by hanging on, is relying on. Hoping that a driver is more careful around you because they have spotted you are wearing a helmet (consciously or subconsciously) is probably not a good thing to bring into any objective safety discussion.

I would also think that any sort of data to suggest helmets wearers were on average given a wider birth is questionable as the drivers giving the wider birth are different drivers, i.e the same driver may give the same birth to the same rider regardless of helmet status.

Yes, I knew sub conscience looked wrong when I typed it but I was being lazy!

What I mean by hanging on, is relying on. Hoping that a driver is more careful around you because they have spotted you are wearing a helmet (consciously or subconsciously) is probably not a good thing to bring into any objective safety discussion.

I would also think that any sort of data to suggest helmets wearers were on average given a wider birth is questionable as the drivers giving the wider birth are different drivers, i.e the same driver may give the same birth to the same rider regardless of helmet status.

'berth' :)

Or we're into an altogether different dimension of road user relations.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree.

Ian Walker actually found that he was passed more closely when wearing a helmet, as measured by his bike-mounted device, not given a wider berth. The counter-intuitive finding is one of the main reasons why the study is quoted so widely, I think. (As I said, I remember finding problems with the study, but I can't remember what they were, and maybe I was wrong.)

Hoping that a driver is more careful around you because they have spotted you are wearing a helmet (consciously or subconsciously) is probably not a good thing to bring into any objective safety discussion.

You have it the wrong way round; they go closer to the helmeted rider. And it's exactly the kind of thing we need to bring to an objective discussion. To exclude a known factor which seems to reduce safety margins for helmeted riders suggests an agenda

I would also think that any sort of data to suggest helmets wearers were on average given a wider birth is questionable as the drivers giving the wider birth are different drivers, i.e the same driver may give the same birth to the same rider regardless of helmet status.

It's pretty obvious that you'd get a wider birth if wearing a helmet, since the head is the widest part of the infant and anything which increases it will require more dilation.

Jokes aside, this is why we ignore anecdote and study populations; if you measure the passing distance enough times, you get a statistically significant view of whether some factors relating to the cyclist influence the behaviour of a population of drivers. Of course, some drivers pass wide and slow regardless of who is riding, and some seem determined to clip your elbow with their wing mirror whatever you're wearing, but the distribution curve does seem to shift slightly according to cues which inform the driver about the perceived expertise of the cyclist. If you've ever been circumspect when passing a Boris Bike, you've experienced the effect.

the head is the wisest part of the infant

Another good typo. Keep 'em coming! :)

Me too I want to hate something, so I decided for this:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3830/grundtaltoile**troll**holde.jpg

.

Do you want to get this one^, Oliver? Seems like your area.

My spelling is definitely getting worse. That may be due to knocks to my helmetless head, trouble is I can't remember...

Jokes aside, this is why we ignore anecdote and study populations; if you measure the passing distance enough times, you get a statistically significant view of whether some factors relating to the cyclist influence the behaviour of a population of drivers. Of course, some drivers pass wide and slow regardless of who is riding, and some seem determined to clip your elbow with their wing mirror whatever you're wearing, but the distribution curve does seem to shift slightly according to cues which inform the driver about the perceived expertise of the cyclist. If you've ever been circumspect when passing a Boris Bike, you've experienced the effect.

Makes sense. Also explain why drivers pass me with such little room (a narrow 'birth' if you will) even though I am not wearing a helmet. It must be clear even to the non-cyclist car driver how darn good a cyclist I am.

I don't know the answer, but i suspect mdcc_tester has the greater knowledge here. (meant sincerely before derision ensues!)

The behavioural patterns of drivers and cyclists on different types of roads - Does this throw the balance of the pattern in spacial awareness. Often used commuter routes with wide roads, compared to quieter more residential roads less concious of the cyclist? (by that I mean pulling out of drive ways etc)

Or narrow, yet often used commuter routes, are drivers and cyclists in that aspect hyper aware of each other? Or does the space restriction cause spikes in the pattern? Does the helmet in such circumstances even get taken into account - Does a driver actually look at a cyclists head? To this end, there must be a pattern based geographically and socially/demographically on typical behaviour patterns in certain areas - How does the pattern result in a neighbouring area, a mile away on the same route for instance? Is there correlation, or does this take evermore time for a random pattern to emerge some frequency?

I don't know the answer, lost in where to look for a reasonable response but here.

I put one of these on when I wear a helmet, to cancel out the helmets attraction to vehicles.

I think it's got magnets in.