Remember kids... always wear a helmet. (The almighty bikeradar helmet thread)

Not sure about helmets, but I'm definitly going to upgrade my off-road gear. Keep using my roadie stuff, as my MTN stuff is, crap and worn-out. But it just doesnt cut it.

Together with astro-turf rugby, roadie-lycra off-roading is removing skin quicker then I can grow it.

I always take up prime position to the point that I am sometimes riding just to the left of the middle of the road. I do this when approaching blind bends and blind hills especially. And guess what happens, the driver still overtakes completely on the wrong side of the road.

Reminds me of a fun moment on the ride home last night. Stopped at traffic lights turning right at a crossroads (in dedicated right-turning lane with filter), stopped in middle of lane to discourage any cars trying to pull alongside me (just cause it irritates me, you know?). Car pulls up behind me, we wait for a few seconds, and the filter turns green. I ride across the crossroads, keeping right-ish of the line from entry to exit so the car doesn't try to nip past me while on the actual junction. To my very little surprise, the car attempts to head round me on my left. I turn and give disapproving look and wave of hand and he pulls back behind me, but seriously, what?!!!? Undertaking on single lanes is bad enough, but undertaking on the middle of a junction? What even?

I think the car drivers are more in need of training. Oh wait, they all have a license and have had to pass a comprehensive test haven't they!
Such is the responsibility of driving a car I think a retest every 5 years would be a good idea although would no doubt be an admin nightmare but worth it. Don't pass, can't drive.

I've got to say that whilst I have mixed feelings about helmet wearing (do wear for dirt jumping, don't wear for commuting, will wear in the rain or on the road bike though...) and I'm far from having a 'policy'— people who cycle with helmets strapped to their bags or bars, or don't actually do the chin strap up are fucking morons.

Whatever your 'risk assessment' of the situation is and however 'excellent' your bike handling skills, the unexpected may still happen (there's no accounting for how stupid or thoughtless drivers may be, or for that unexpected man hole cover in the wet) and you can still hurt/kill yourself.

Imagine having to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair, knowing that you could have just put that helmet on... Or even worse, imagine how your family would feel if they knew you'd still be with them if you'd just put it on.

This blind overtaking thing is really common were I live. Fewer cars on the road, leads to a false sense of security I suppose. Thing is, most motorists are overly careful here, leding to them over taking me by driving on the wrong side, and there's been a few near misses with on coming cars.

I often wonder how I would feel, if someone over taking me on a blind bend led to a fatality. Not really my fault, but hard to live with none the less.

On a bike we do have the added advantage of being able to hear oncoming cars and also being a bit ahead to start with. If I can hear a car coming the other way then I will make a gesture to the car behind not to overtake which they sometimes heed.
There are also wild horses which tend to congregate at the most unexpected of places. Only a few weeks back someone raced round a corner and skidded/missed a group of horses by a metre by driving off the road on the wrong side. Luckily no one was coming the other way!
So should horses wear helmets. Better get myself over to some equestrian forum and kick off the discussion.

I had a Rav 4 pull out of a side road, assuming I was on the pavement. She quickly discovered I was on the road and slowed/ stayed on the wrong side. A car was approaching, and I made a snap judgement that she would brake, and accelerated to let her in behind. Fecking scarred the hell out of me. The oncoming car driver gave me a shitty look for being on the road* and I felt a bit rubish about the whole thing for a while.

(*in Norway most cyclists use the pavements)

I think the car drivers are more in need of training. Oh wait, they all have a license and have had to pass a comprehensive test haven't they!

Kind of.

Some of them have license but never even recieve lesson let alone done a theory test (uncommon mind).

My grandfather is one example, he was a mechanic in the Army stationed in Africa back in the 50's after the war, The Sergeant don't like the idea that there's a mechanic in his base who never drove a car before in his life let alone sat in the driving seat, so he gave him a key to an army truck, told him to take it out, and come back once he got the hang of it.

He took the truck, drove around the desert figuring out what's what, after he got the hang of it, he drove back to the army base and the Sergeant gave him a license.

(before flaming start, he's a very careful driver, he's a cyclists all his life until his 30's when he start driving a car, never had an accident as far as I know).

Ed, the older driver is another matter all together. There should be special reaction based tests for older drivers as I strongly doubt that most 80 year olds could actually stop/avoid a rogue pedestrian as well as a younger driver.
It is about time that driving moved away from being a right. If you make a mistake then your license should be revoked. The roads would then be less full and only have very careful/responsible drivers on them. Public transport would have to improve as more would be using it.

What was this thread about, I forget.

Whatever your 'risk assessment' of the situation is and however 'excellent' your bike handling skills, the unexpected may still happen
Imagine having to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair, knowing that you could have just put that helmet on... Or even worse, imagine how your family would feel if they knew you'd still be with them if you'd just put it on.

True no one can expect the unexpected and depending how risk averse you are will depend on the degree of protection you take, however cycling is a relatively safe activity marginally more risky than sitting on a bus per mile travlled. Drivers who crash often suffer head injuries. By your logic drivers (or pedestrians for that matter in case they get knocked over crossing a road) should wear a helmet just in case, as should pub goers, hill walkers, people in kitchens...

In fact i have no issue with helmets and anyone wishing to protect their head should consider wearing one. Problem with cycle helmets is that many people (especially non cyclists) default to the pro helmet position because it seems common sense. That default discourages some people from cycling thinking it is much riskier than it is. Not cycling is so much riskier

I find it strange that people can be quite so shitty about taking 'cycle training'.... after having done buckets of advanced driver training.... I know it made me a better driver as a result..... so why shouldn't take 'cycle training' make me a better cyclist? Maybe if it was sold as 'advanced' cycle training then those near-perfect cyclists on the forum might feel more comfortable taking it....

As for falling off, I fell off again today, at zero speed, on a path... I'm just not getting the hang of these SPD's... but that's 'cos I'm a muppet, not necessarily a rubbish cyclist.

p.s. scab's on the knees FTW

I find it strange that people can be quite so shitty about taking 'cycle training'.... after having done buckets of advanced driver training.... I know it made me a better driver as a result..... so why shouldn't take 'cycle training' make me a better cyclist? Maybe if it was sold as 'advanced' cycle training then those near-perfect cyclists on the forum might feel more comfortable taking it....

As for falling off, I fell off again today, at zero speed, on a path... I'm just not getting the hang of these SPD's... but that's 'cos I'm a muppet, not necessarily a rubbish cyclist.

p.s. scab's on the knees FTW

You'll get the hang of them soon bagheera. it's compulsary to forget the spds in the beginning and fall off s l o w l y while clipped in. Wear ther knee scabs with pride;p)

You're right about cycle training though. People who learn anything from an expert will do the thing better and self teaching through reading is good to a point but lacks the feedback angle. Our cooperative cycle training uk has marketed training as advanced skills cycle training and we put together a package called 'faster commuter' including the cycle skills training with bike maintenance training. It wasn't succesfull 5 years ago but may work now

Bagheera, That's a pretty good point, you should post that in the Cycle Training section of this forum.

It's already a bit hard trying to sell Cycle Training to those who already feel confident when riding a bicycle, generally Cycle Training often get mistaking for the defuct Cycle Proficiency test which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

nicely put Bagheera, as for the spd's right of passage..stop forget or havetrouble getting foot out fall.

He said himself he is shit at riding off road. To me riding off road is not riskier no, not for fatality/near fatalities. If a car travelling at 40 mph hits me then I think that is going to be a much higher consequence than me sliding off the trail at 10mph onto some mud/forest floor.

This is true but the forces produced in a 10 mph fall off on the mud are the type of force cycle helmets are designed to protect you from. This is the area where cycle helmets work well. The forced generated by a car hitting you at 40 mph are well beyond what a cycle helmet is capable of negating to such an extent that the chances of it affecting the outcome of a crash are very small. An oven glove is very good at protecting your hand when bringing a cake out of the oven but would not change the outcome of trying to pick up a piece of near molten rock recently jettisoned from a volcano.

But it would largely depend on how you fall, if you rolled/put arms out or went down like sack of spuds etc,.

Dangerous to say but I have fallen off my bike many times and never hit my head. That includes an obsession with BMX for 6 years in the 80's. So based on 30+ years of 'silly' riding and many falls would suggest I won't hit my head?

You'll get the hang of them soon bagheera. it's compulsary to forget the spds in the beginning and fall off s l o w l y while clipped in. Wear ther knee scabs with pride;p)

You're right about cycle training though. People who learn anything from an expert will do the thing better and self teaching through reading is good to a point but lacks the feedback angle. Our cooperative cycle training uk has marketed training as advanced skills cycle training and we put together a package called 'faster commuter' including the cycle skills training with bike maintenance training. It wasn't succesfull 5 years ago but may work now

I suppose it depends if there is anything to learn from an expert. What if I am an expert too? (built from 30+ years experience and willingness to learn/open to feedback)

I suppose it depends if there is anything to learn from an expert. What if I am an expert too? (built from 30+ years experience and willingness to learn/open to feedback)

That's a lot of experience kerley, i considered myself an expert and had about 35 years of urban and rural cycling under my belt when i applied to be a cycling instructor 9 years ago. My riding and awareness changed drastically after an afternoon of cycle training as part of my instrructor training.

When did you last get feedback? I'd be happy to spend an hour or so with you and offer you some. pm me

I am sure you can figure loads of stuff through experience but it is amazing how we sometimes tolerate stuff. We suffer the same type of incident again and again yet don't think to change OUR behavior because its easier to shout and blame f*ing cnting w**nker drivers who while no doubt should have looked before opening the car door in our face we hadn't figured out that we could have ridden out of the car door zone

I suppose it depends if there is anything to learn from an expert. What if I am an expert too? (built from 30+ years experience and willingness to learn/open to feedback)

What do you have to lose?

Kerley, check out the cycle training experience, it have some pretty good information about what's what other has learned from cycle training.

even very experience cyclists has taken some.

That's a lot of experience kerley, i considered myself an expert and had about 35 years of urban and rural cycling under my belt when i applied to be a cycling instructor 9 years ago. My riding and awareness changed drastically after an afternoon of cycle training as part of my instrructor training.

When did you last get feedback? I'd be happy to spend an hour or so with you and offer you some. pm me

I am sure you can figure loads of stuff through experience but it is amazing how we sometimes tolerate stuff. We suffer the same type of incident again and again yet don't think to change OUR behavior because its easier to shout and blame f*ing cnting w**nker drivers who while no doubt should have looked before opening the car door in our face we hadn't figured out that we could have ridden out of the car door zone

That's a good example, I wouldn't be riding in the car door zone but take your point.
And I am not a tolerator, can't you tell from my stance on this forum :-)

Like I said, the only area that concerns me is drivers overtaking where they shouldn't. When I take a jaunt into a town I don't have any issues at all and can cater for all the bad driving very easily. What I can't cater for is being passed by drivers who assume nothing will ever be coming the other way or they have room to make it past when they don't.

What else can be done other than riding in primary position and making sure you are seen. I am genuinely interested in how training would help me on that. So as an instructor what would you suggest?

By your logic drivers (or pedestrians for that matter in case they get knocked over crossing a road) should wear a helmet just in case, as should pub goers, hill walkers, people in kitchens...

In fact i have no issue with helmets and anyone wishing to protect their head should consider wearing one. Problem with cycle helmets is that many people (especially non cyclists) default to the pro helmet position because it seems common sense. That default discourages some people from cycling thinking it is much riskier than it is. Not cycling is so much riskier

No, you misunderstand me —all I'm saying is that if you've got one with you wear it.

What else can be done other than riding in primary position and making sure you are seen. I am genuinely interested in how training would help me on that. So as an instructor what would you suggest?

i need to see the road at least. send a map link to me and ideally would need to ride that section of road.
Could you ride out even further blocking the drivers?

No, you misunderstand me —all I'm saying is that if you've got one with you wear it.

dan i occasionally play cricket, i use a box when i bat, and you're right , it's probably a good idea to wear it on my way to the ground... just in case :p)

repped skydancer

otherwise i would have had to wear my fencing kit to and from training as it would make me safer from a knife attack