Knees...

Hey all. Just a question. Rode about 35miles in my fixed (48x18) today and now, a few hrs later I got a fair bit of pain in my knees. sure it'll pass. What does this mean to anyone whos been riding fixed for a while, should I start saving for Ti knee surgery now??!

How often do you ride 35mi?

not often. had a day off so headed up coast to see how far I'd get. It's not a great distance, but the first time on my fixed. whats going through yr mind!?? :/

Yeah i have the same problem. It comes and goes, but it's a bit worrying. I think i big gear and incorrect saddle height are the biggest culprits. A bigger gear puts less weight on your saddle and more on your legs. What is your gear?

redeye not often. had a day off so headed up coast to see how far I'd get. It's not a great distance, but the first time on my fixed. whats going through yr mind!?? :/

Basically if you're not used to doing that kind of distance you're gonna get sore no matter what you're riding.
The longer the distance the more likely you are to expose setup issues. A 10mi ride wont make you sore but extend it and things begin to ache..
You might need to tweak cleat position, saddle set-back, saddle height.. where exactly is the pain?

its not that i'm not used to riding, have been for years. but its only been a matter of a few months riding fixed, and today's been the longest ride on it.

Achy legs after a ride is a nice feel, achy knees I aint quite so sure about.

Gearing is currently 48x18

your gearing isn't the problem then. i think tweaking your saddle position is the best bet. But you'll only know if you go for another long ride. It is probably something ridiculous, like moving it forwards 2mm or something.

Still, if you don't often ride that distance you won't tend to notice the bits that start to hurt..
Is your fix setup different from your other bike/s?
48x18 is fine.
Where does your knee hurt?

Wise words from Hippy.

A few months ago I had a big week on my fix, 15hrs plus (with 4hrs on sunday). this brought on Patellofemoral syndrome.
I put it down to too much too soon, riding fix (pushing higher gear than usual), & saddle not far back enough (too sharp of an angle on my knee).
Injuries such as this are hard to get rid of once they sprout so my advice is definately, be sensitive about it.
Quad strength and flexibility work has helped me get back on track (but I'm only getting back into it just know, fingers crossed)

Injuries are the story of my life sadly

hippy Still, if you don't often ride that distance you won't tend to notice the bits that start to hurt..
Is your fix setup different from your other bike/s?
48x18 is fine.
Where does your knee hurt?

My other bikes are mtbs, so a bit different, and they hurt a little, it feels like behind the knee cap.

Maybe I'll try moving the saddle back a bit and see after a slightly shorter ride.

cheers!

on the photos of my bike i've just posted, does the saddle look too far forward? when it was first ready to ride, I moved it forward a fair bit, and in the last few weeks have moved it back slightly.

do you really think the saddle position can help when so much strain is going through yr kness when slowing down?

Looking at the pics, your saddle does seem a way forward and angled down. This will make you slide foward and might put more pressure on your arms for one, but also lower you from what is a more correct saddle height.
This 'could' go some way to explaining the knee pain.

Detailed info about cycling and knees: http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

I will typically start with the saddle mid-rails and move it about depending on what feels right for me. I tend to ride further though which makes problem-solving this stuff easier. More time to know what hurts and test fixes you see..

Um, yeah, I'd flatten the saddle a bit, centre it on the rails and check how much your knee is bending when you are at the bottom of the pedal stroke.. there should be a slight (like 5deg) bend.

cheers hippy. as i said on the other post, the saddles on all my bikes are set up like this! (at this angle) but will definitely try next time like you say, with the saddle mid rails and see how I get on. its just getting used to the longer, stretched out position! cheers!

agree with hippy. riding long distances the effects show up exponentially, since the stress on your body accumulates. if you plot it on a graph it's wont be linear.

redeye cheers hippy. as i said on the other post, the saddles on all my bikes are set up like this! but will definitely try next time like you say, with the saddle mid rails and see how I get on. its just getting used to the longer, stretched out position! cheers!

I've noticed quite a few mtbers setup their saddles pointing down at the front. Not sure why? Can probably get away with it coz your butt is often the saddle a lot more than on a road bike.

Also - if you're finding that you're having to strain too much to get going, I'd suggest starting on an easier gear. I started riding fixed on 48x19 (which is quite low!), and while pootling around was fine, my commute - which involves a couple of steepish hills - hurt my knees a lot. I took it a bit easier and did some careful leg work down the gym for a month or two to build my strength up - lots and lots of spinning on the static bike at a resistance that was just enough to get my legs really fatigued but not enough to hurt my knees.

Now, a couple of years later, my legs are much stronger, and I cruise up the same hills on a 48x17 without getting out of the saddle, and I don't remember the last time my knees hurt.

Basically - build up your muscles on a lower gear than you think you need, and when they get strong they'll take a lot of the strain off your kneecaps. Then you can gear up a bit.

And I was riding gears before I went fixed too - evidently there were muscles I wasn't using on the gearie.

i'm going to borrow a set of my eggbeaters from one of my mtbs and fit them to this bike, i'm sure this will help, also, as i'll be able to apply an even stroke through the full circle. and proper cycling shoes will be better than what i'm using at the moment too.

next step: move saddle back. i'll try it tomorrow!

redeye i'm going to borrow a set of my eggbeaters from one of my mtbs and fit them to this bike, i'm sure this will help, also, as i'll be able to apply an even stroke through the full circle. and proper cycling shoes will be better than what i'm using at the moment too.

next step: move saddle back. i'll try it tomorrow!

I just thought I would mention float as no one has brought that up, I have heard from a few sources than knee pain can often be the result of too little float in your pedal/cleat - I am not sure what the float is on the eggbeaters but a little more float cannot do any harm and may help your knees, I use Bebop deluxe pedals which have a good 10° each way (there own description is: "20 degrees of biomechanically correct float") - and I have never had knee pain and ride a MTB with a 48/11 ratio (on the road) - just an idea, might help.

Read more here: http://www.australiancyclist.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=2825

MEDIAL
*Not uncommon especially among cyclists who have previously damaged their medial cartilage. The major predisposing factor is generating too much medial stress on the knee by having your toes rotated out during the power phase. This can be because of poor cleat position with too little float, by moving your knee towards the top tube at the top of the stroke or by pronation of the foot during the power stroke forcing the tibia to rotate during the stroke. Can be common among women whose wider hips force a greater angle at the knee.

CAUSES:

Incorrect cleat position - foot held externally rotated (toes pointed out)
Excessive knee frontal plane motion
Too little pedal float
Excessive pronation: consider orthotics*

Guys I had a recurring knee problem and decided to get myself "fitted" by Cyclefit in Macklin Street wc2. The best £200 I have ever spent.

straightedgeandy Guys I had a recurring knee problem and decided to get myself "fitted" by Cyclefit in Macklin Street wc2. The best £200 I have ever spent.

Be careful though, no system is a 'magic bullet' solution. I had the cyclefit session and it made my problem worst, [and as a little moan here, complete lack of interest post session when i tried to discuss the problem with them]

I know loads of people are really happy with them but thought i'd dip in with my experience before you drop 200 notes

Mind if I ask what your problem was and how it got worse?

I suffer from bad knees...proba as a result of the skateboarding i did when i was younger. But it hasn't gone away.
I found these really help when doing extensive bouts of cycling

Straight for the pills! That'll fix it! :)

Position.. practise.. then pills.

glucosamine is the answer.

Drugs are bad.. mkay..