Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

I think moth just did.
1: turn nipple until torque from spoke wind up exceeds static friction
2: spoke springs back to much lower wind up angle as sliding friction is much lower than static friction
3: eventually, sliding friction slows the rotating spoke, which is also now exerting much less torque than before, and it comes to a stop

the problem is that in step 2, the threads turn further than you wanted, but you're not sure how much of the initial wind-up translated into turning, and if you make an opposite adjustment you overshoot again... I don't have a good answer, just various fiddly patterns of turning it back and forth hoping to end up with the adjustment i wanted and no twist.

The feeling the twist thing only works well when there's a smoother transition to threads turning, and that seems to be down to luck and/or thicker lubricant on the thread.

I've not built enough wheels to have settled on what lubricants to use. I've done a couple of my own with thick wet-conditions chain lube, which was nice to build with, but may have left the threads turning too freely as they needed re-truing after not very long (though they seem to have settled down now).

I've used WD40 (squirted into a bottle cap then spoke threads dipped in), on the theory that it would help with the build then mostly evaporate. Not the smoothest but seemed to work.

I tried purified linseed oil once (the expensive artist's stuff - i had some to hand) but it took months to set, and until it did it was more grease than glue. I might have a go with boiled linseed oil sometime soon. (Linseed oil needs oxygen to set into a resin - the opposite of thread-locking compounds which set anaerobically.)

I know a lot of people swear by building dry, but i confess that just feels wrong to me. (Fine with thick spokes and modest tensions?)

I've used Phil's tenacious oil to build wheels with, but generally I use Mobil1 10-40W. About a centimetre in a highball glass, bung the spokes in threaded end down, and then wipe off the excess when you pull each spoke out to lace it up. Haven't had any problems with spokes unloosening yet, except on my 29er wheels, and I think the spoke tension just wasn't high enough on them. I'm rebuilding them with CX-Rays rather than the DT Super Comps I originally used and building them with a higher spoke tension.

I use Fenwick's white grease with PTFE, because that's what I use for almost anything which needs grease.

The amount of truing that polo imposes on my wheels means I'd be replacing cracked alloy nipples before they start corroding on.

No normal oil or grease on spoke thread; you want to increase friction at that interface which is what linseed oil does by drying out.

Oil only goes in the rim eyelet to allow nipple to turn.

I think Jobst Brandt demonstrated tying/soldering did nothing to strength/rigidity of a wheel except stop spokes flying everywhere in a crash with your wooden rims and 40 spokes made of tin or something.

No normal oil or grease on spoke thread; you want to increase friction at that interface which is what linseed oil does by drying out.

Do you not find this gives you clicky wind-up at higher tensions?

I find linseed oil is not very viscous. At least not as much as chain lube. I used to use raw linseed but started using boiled about year ago. It starts to go get gungy quite soon, within a few hours so you need to get to work on it soon after lubing. If I've got a few wheel sets to build I often lace them all first while I'm in "lacing mode" and find that a better workflow rather than lace-true-lace-true. I also used to lube up the threads prior to lacing but you end up with oil smears all over the place. To avoid greasing up nice shiny TB-14's and such like I run half a drop into the spoke / nipple junction and between nipple / rim. One or two may over run but most are contained.

I have done some builds completely dry but rounding the flats and then having to retension is always in the back of my mind. As long as I can reach the recommended tension and the wheel stays true is good enough for me.

jdp: If you have money to spend choose mavic, ambrosio or dt swiss rims, as a general rule. If you have to keep costs down, I've had good experiences with and would recommend rigida and DRC rims. Alex rims seem pretty ubiquitous on off the peg bikes, I'm sure they're fine too.

edit actually drc rims not so much, were a bugger to tension without sending them wildly out of true, and some of the eyelets start to pull through under fairly normal tension.

Cheers, will check those out.

A friend has recommended these http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s116p1565&z=1657 as a cheap sturdy option. What's the general consensus?

For the same price I would opt for the Rigida Chrina which spa also have on their online store.http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s116p66
I've built them up lots of times and rate them somewhere between the Open Sport and Open Pro.

Just did a dry build and really didn't enjoy it much. TB-14 / Goldtec / Sapim Race. Lots of creaking when getting close to full tension and brass shavings flying out. Very hard to turn. Have now doused them with linseed but was a good reminder not to do this. On the plus side there were no greasy fingerprints on the nice shiny rim but I wear gloves with shiny components anyway.

My hands hurt. Shut up hands.

I have a pair of rigida chrinas for sale if you're interested jdp? How does £10 for the pair sound?

They are used but have lots and lots of life left

^^How do you find building up TB14s Arup? I've heard from the internets that they can be a bastard, as well as absolutely fine...

I suppose I've built about a dozen sets this year and find them really nice to work with. In terms of getting them round and true they are quite responsive. The bastard side of things might be having to be more careful about scratching them and keeping greasy finger marks off them. They handle tension really well and have a decent join.

Open Pro's are my gold standard and in my opinion "build themselves". The Rigida Sputnik I would say is a close second and these aren't far off. Have no idea how they ride though. A great way to get that vintage look but with modern rims.

^Interesting :)

I have a pair on my road bike, but lacing them has been as far as I've got to building a wheel, so I wouldn't have had a clue whether they were nice to build or not

Why are the greasy finger marks a problem? Given the fact that my wheel builds are lubricated by copious amounts of Mobil 1, the rims usually end up pretty greasy, but I just give them a wipe down with some acetone once I've finished. Never really found it a problem, but that may be because my standards are incredibly low and easy to achieve.

Quick wipe works for me too... However lowering the bar is the ultimate key to success.

For the same price I would opt for the Rigida Chrina which spa also have on their online store.http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s116p66
I've built them up lots of times and rate them somewhere between the Open Sport and Open Pro.

Cheers

I have a pair of rigida chrinas for sale if you're interested jdp? How does £10 for the pair sound?

They are used but have lots and lots of life left

Maybe. How many holes and what colour? I'm also not London based so they would need posting.

Silver 32+36H

Ahh, I'm after black but thanks for the offer.

@ arup Not used chrina, but wish I'd used Grizzly instead of Sputniks on my tourer - they SO heavy. And almost too wide for my forks. Doh. Any experience of grizzlys?

@all thanks for all your experiences re: lubes & linseed etc.

Benny

I chuck a bit of finishline wetlube on the threads and nips, or whatever seems to be at hand.

FWIW, I've been using general purpose MoS2 bearing grease

Why are the greasy finger marks a problem?

I'm building the wheels for other people who have entrusted me with their shiny new purchase. Even if they say they don't mind a few greasy smears, they do mind. If they were my own wheels I wouldn't care so much and probably wouldn't buy shiny rims in the first place. I don't even clean my bike. Well, maybe once or twice a year.

Once or twice a year... Do you ride it?

I hardly ever clean mine, I got a work experience kid to clean one of them the other day, might ride a different one in tomorrow.

For the same price I would opt for the Rigida Chrina which spa also have on their online store.http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s116p66
I've built them up lots of times and rate them somewhere between the Open Sport and Open Pro.

I don't like the Chrinas as it is hard to get tyres on and off them. They don't have enough of a well I think.