Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

pillar 1422 are made from 1.65mm blanks. Max allowed on LB rims is 1.8mm. Not much improvement here.

19%, not to be sniffed at.

Perhaps I look like a dick. It's only a fly in the ointment.

Yep. Will do both. Already tried riding with flipped brake QR thingy, some improvement.

Cheers all

@amey Thought I'd try making my 853 fixeh lighter. It's well nippy. Loving it.

Oh dear Skully, I remember very well the look of upgrade glee you had when you were showing me the wheel bits and pieces.

I hope you get it solved.

Shutter Precision

If you build with pillar 1425 or dt swiss aero comp you should get a wheel with ~8% more lateral stiffness.

If you combine that with building it cross 1 with all heads in (and the wheel was previously standard cross 2) the stiffness should go to + ~16%.

But the hub has to be rated for radial spoking. (some SON hubs are... so could be possible)

All numbers are from a wheel stiffness predictor excel sheet so pretty shaky.....
but sound in theory: Thicker spokes, wider flange spacing.

16% more stiffness means the wheel will now bend 2.6mm instead of 3mm. Could or could not make a difference :)

Fair point.

Not much gain for all it is worth.

Also can't get aero comps in silver.
Can't get pillar 1425.

Elbows out - is the flange gonna pop? Is it not gonna pop?

Plan on building myself a pair of track wheels in new year with some 36h Dura Ace track hubs - should I be looking to build them up as 3 or 4 cross?
Think that 4 cross looks better, which is about the limit of my wheel building knowledge, but is there any reason that 3 cross would be preferable on these hubs?

on these hubs

DA7600 or DA7710?

DA7600 - the high flange ones.
Incidentally, what is the benefit of low flange track hub, weight?

Low flange is lighter, no other benefit.
What rims are you going to use?
I'd go for 4x with box section rims like TB14, with deeper rims you might have to 3x to avoid spokes crossing over spokeheads.

Will probably be Mavic Open Pro tubulars as I can get them local. Want something low profile, tubular and shiny so there's not a huge amount of choice. Would be interested in some 36h Kysrium SL rims if anyone here is connected ;)

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Thanks @PepOne.
I asked the question as my LBS recommended not building up these hubs with 4x. Didn't sound quite right to me and think they might made a bit of a slip up. As a result I'm going to get another opinion from a specialist wheel builder as it's quite a bit of money to be spending. Cheers

Lol, DA7600 are probably the most 4x built hubs ever...
NJS wheels are generally 4x according to the rulez.

Hence my surprise and confusion at their advice! NJS / BC training wheel was the whole inspiration. You'd think some wheel building knowledge would be a requirement for a LBS... Saved me a ton and also from some bad advice so cheers and merry christmas!

4x is fine on large flange rims on the mavic rims. 4x looks right too.

I would not risk 1x heads in lacing. The benefit is small and the flange is at greater risk. With a forged shell it might be o. K the other risk is the bends on the spokes does cause a weakness. It is a small weakness but for the tiny improvement it is not worth it.

I have done 45mm carbon disc brake rims I use with cx rays 24h and a son deluxe disc brake and the flange spacing is rubbish. There is not a huge ammount of flex but if it was a rim brake wheel it would not be acceptable. Being disc brake though and it's for a light lady it is an non issue. She rode tcr on them.

I would replace the spokes with plain gauge or sapim race if that is all the rim can take. I would also ignore lb spoke recommendation. It is a front wheel and under lower tension. Use washers to help protect the rim and limit tension to 900n and all will be well. What lb are worried about is the spoke being stronger than the rim. If you don't snag it the rim won't fail. No other good solution if you don't want a higher drilling rim.

As a result I'm going to get another opinion from a specialist wheel builder ...

@cycleclinic is your man!

You'd think some wheel building knowledge would be a requirement for a LBS

No idea about UK, but in germany definitily not.
Most LBS round here are on the edge of their ability truing a 32h3x touring wheel.

Hence why I gave up and now DIY all the wheels.

I’m rebuilding my 11spd wheelset and i need to get the spokes ordered. Do i need to take the spokes being used into account when measuring? I’ve come out with 291 DS and 293 NDS. Could these measurements be inaccurate because the spokes have been bent? I really cba to deal with sending the wrong ones back.

Before i chuck my assymetric disk rims into the shop to be built which side is the disk side for front and back ?

On this drawing, the front brake goes on the right, and the rear brake goes on the left. The aim in both cases is to get the spoke bed of the rim closer to the midplane between the flanges than it would be with a symmetrical rim.

Thanks for the input. Not building anything with 1 cross. On any hub. As you and I both said ,there is very little benefit and a bit too much risk for my liking.

As for LB recommendations, I'm not gonna disregard manufacturers instructions ,especially since it will void the warranty for the end user. So no plain gauge spokes for me ,thanks. I'll leave that to the Sheldon Brown's. That leaves me with 1.8 race vs 1.65 Pillar. Not a world of difference.

The moral of a story, talk to someone experienced before you order your bits.

If using laser cx rays or rev I round down by 1mm to account for stretch.