Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Cyclebasket uses DPD and is based in the middle of nowhere. They're setup almost like an LBS, except that there are no locals because countryside.

The rear wheel (40h, 13 gauge spokes, DT Hugi hub, Mavic M3CD rim, drum brake) on our tandem has snapped two spokes in as many rides. The first was NDS and was repaired before we rode again. The second is DS, and on the other side of the wheel. I've had a feel of the other spokes and some feel worryingly lacking in tension, seems to me like it's time for a rebuild, with a wider rim this time(bought second hand).

Backstory over, my question is this. Who would people suggest to build a tandem rear wheel for a heavyish (170kg) team that would be suitable for touring and what rim would you suggest? Bonus points if they're London so I can drop the hub off in person as we need it ready to roll by 30th July...

@broken_777

Rebuilt rear wheel with ACI db spokes as per @mdcc_tester suggestion.

Difference in how the spoke heads sit in the hub flange is incredible.

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I once tried charging postage for small parts and websales fell to near zero which told me alot.

New Mavic open Pro's turned up today. ERD of this rim is 593mm and they are on target for weight.

money on good spokes is money well spent.

DPD courier charges are £5.75 for a express pack 5 and £5.25 for Express pack 1. £6 therefore is not unreasonable is that how they ship.

Yeah, I don't mind having paid for the shipping since I got the 1 hour window text this morning and could be around for them, rather than miss the posty and have to traipse to the sorting office if they'd been delivered royal mail.

Not had problems with those ebay spokes before but won't be risking it again.

Given the postage cost I'm half tempted to just order a mass of long spokes from Cyclebasket and cut and thread them to suit, not a quick job on the Cyclo threader I have right enough.

Who delivered the spokes? We normally get a 'Dave' (according to tracking and text notifications) in Manchester/Trafford Park :-)
Love DPD.

Trying to make a light-ish schmamcy wheelset for tubeless. Probably going to build myself.

28/24, fixed rear (admittedly not the lightest hub in the world but the one I want), lightweight dyno front (also not the lightest starting point in the world). Got some no-name low profile toroidal crabon rims coming. Was thinking about trying to shave a bit off on the lacing side of things ... or should I just forget about cxrays or laser or dt rev? D-light or Super Spoke even? Are Alloy nippie nips even worth bothering with?

thangyouplease for any advice/abuse you care to offer, pros and ams alike.

hugs
Skullbags

CX-Rays would be my choice. Nice but pricey. Even I'm unconvinced by the Super Spokes. The weight difference is 0.8g per spoke. Even if you used them throughout (and I'm not sure I'd want to on the rear - they really are very thin) that's a total weight saving of 41g. Never mind the weight savings afforded by taking a good dump before a ride - that's more like the weight of a modest fart.

I've used lasers once. Never again. They're too flexy and avoiding spoke windup is too much of a PITA.

Sapim Race for round spokes, CX-Rays for bladed. Or ACI Alpines if you're feeling stingy.

Personally, I like alloy nipples though. I've had endless problems with brass nipples, and none with Sapim Polyax ones. Arup rebuilt a wheel I build for @Cycliste recently, after a fellow club member ran over it, and despite being Very Well Used the nipples were in perfect nick and could be reused.

Never mind the weight savings afforded by taking a good dump before a ride - that's more like the weight of a modest fart.

Lolz cheers mate, good food for thought.

Update to post from a few pages back, I've ridden 100 or so fast (flat) miles on this rear and it's not exploded, gone out for true, and the bulges haven't got any worse. Waiting for some money so I can buy a new rear/set but until then I'm going to keep using it for local flat rides. Am I a fucking idiot who's about to learn the meaning of 'catastrophic failure'? Worst I can see happening is the spoke pulling through and the wheel going out of true, but I don't know shit about Carbon.

Still looks like this:

Cx rays and lasers are as stiff as each other. Laser do wind up if brass nipples are used. Use sapim alloy nipples and there is less wind up. Use sapim nipple freeze and build quickly and the nipples wont corrode to the treads. I have used 10,000's of sapim alloy nipples. I can count 4 failures and i think i know the reason for each one none of them the nipples fault.

The rim will fail at some point by the spoke pulling, the wheel going out of true and through a chain reaction that leads to a rip in spacetime and the descruction of the universe.

Will pay money to see you on carbonz

Ha ha. Not taking it down any 50mph descents any time soon, but no qualms about using it on my daily 18 mile loop/commute. I don't see how bad a failure at 23mph could be...

A spoke will eventually pull through and you will feel that and stop. It wont be worse than that although the back wheel may lock up and scrap some paint.

Ok great, that's what I needed to hear. I'm not riding it hard, just steady threshold stuff on decent roads so it should last long enough for me to get a replacement.

Of course a spoke pulling through as you pass the north korean embasy causes you to crash in the front garden and sparks an international incident resulting in nuclear war and the end of civilisation. I am off to bed now.

Worst I can see happening is the spoke pulling through

If it's only one, then having the spoke come unhitched at the rim is actually less bad than having a common or garden spoke elbow break. It probably won't even become fully detached.

@cycleclinic Thanks for your contribution re: lasers & alloy
nipples. What does nipple freeze do that boiled linseed doesn't do- harden quicker and more strongly?

@dubtap hah! Experiment starting with rims and fork on 853 fixeh... next stop full crabonz biek.

Seen these aci spokes recommend a fair bit recently. What would be the point in picking DT comps or Sapim Race over these? It's not like you get snazzy logos or anything.

Dt comps have a slightly more quality feel to them than ACI. Very unlikely this translates to real world quality improvements (strength/fatigue life/weight) but I'd still go comps if I have the cash

Building up a set of Kinlin XR22T onto some DT swiss 240s road hubs I got off the forum. Should I be considering 12mm or 14mm nipples?

Also am I being to cheap considering CN 424 spokes over CX-RAYS?

am I being to cheap considering CN 424 spokes over CX-RAYS?

You are, but not in a way which is likely to turn out badly unless you're operating near the limits of the spokes.