Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

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  • Thanks, informative answer as always. I'll see what Velocity have to say but it looks unlikely.

  • Question for you:
    I currently have a set of hand built Record 11 hubs laced to Ambrosio extra light. I was thinking of switching to a wider rim.

    This will be on a CAAD 9 that will be used for racing and sunny Sunday blasts.

    Pretty sure they are 32hole hubs. I'd be running 28s if poss, if not 25s.

    What are some decent rim options?

  • While you racy lot cogitate that^, I have another question:

    Can anyone tell me if there's a good methodical way to detension a rim successfully for replacing the hub? Ta.

  • racing and sunny Sunday blasts.32hole hubs

    Kinlin XR31T or DT RR511 spring to mind. Whether it's actually worth the trouble and expense is another matter, since your requirements would be well served by a factory road race wheel such as Fulcrum Racing Quattro LG.

  • detension a rim successfully for replacing the hub?

    If you're hoping to reuse the spokes, just loosen the nipples one turn at a time as you to around the wheel until slack, the remove the nips completely one at a time and make sure you keep the four sets of spokes (DS outbound, DS inbound, NDS outbound and NDS inbound) separate and reuse in the same side and direction.

  • ^thanks! Actually using new spokes, dynohub replacing normal.

    Guess I was just worried about a method of de-tensioning to keep the rim relatively straight - like would I do a tiny (half, quarter or even less) detension of each spoke for a few circuits of the wheel before undoing by whole turns? I once had a rim taco wildly whilst unbuilding but I recall I was doing very silly uneven things to tensions, so I won't make that mistake again.

    Thanks.

  • that is not possible. 32H 3x will be stiffer than 28H 3x. The shorter spoke length of the 28H rims does not make up for the the effect of 4 extra spokes. Try measuring lateral and radial stiffness I am right.

    I build plenty of 28 spoke wheels but for brevet I really don't see the point.

  • when I have measured a clinchers overall diameter it is 633mm like a 28" tubular. Never thought anything of it.

  • I have cut spokes out of a fully tensioned wheel before and found no issues when it comes to rebuilding. Rims can bend alot without deforming. Think how wobbley a wheel can be when the nipples are done up to the botto of the threads sometimes there is a lot of wobble as spoke differ in length a bit and I might have wound one nipple a bit ore in than another.

    Only old flexible rims could taco in the way you found. modern rims dont tend to do that.

    Unwinding spokes is fine but takes a bit of extra time. It really depends on the rim, I would not cut the spokes out of an old mavic tubular rim for example that might be asking for trouble.

  • yes the kinlins would work fine. The XR22T would be my suggestion. Buying a set of fulcrums is an option but then what does sacredhart do with his record/ambrosio wheels sell them? Perhaps but record hubs can be reused add infinitum which makes them cheaper possibly in the long run.

  • Maybe it's the increase in radial and lateral stiffness that makes them need truing more often. Just personal experience though. You may very well be right.
    N.B. Spokes are shorter on 32h than on similar 28h.

  • I got the spoke length the wrong way round. Think about this lukas if a wheel is stiffer then it less likely to go out of true as for it takes a higher load to detension spokes. The reason why your 28 spoke wheel hold up better is because they are better build ie properly tensioned/even spoke tension. Wheels go out of true because
    1) the wheel has suffered a load so high that spoke detension (or nearly loose tension) and nipples unwind a bit. The difference in tension means the nipples can continue to unwind.
    2) insuffiecent spoke tension leading to 1) being more likely
    3) un even spoke tension meaning 1) is more likely

    Wheels are structure which operate under the laws of physics. Apply physics to your arguement Lukas and you end up in la la fairy land (I am not trying to be offensive here by the way). The thing is much of bike lore is based on psudo physics and resides somewhere in la la fairly land.

    One example is that spoke tension effect wheel stiffness (it doesn't by the way) or that tie and soldering wheels improves there "strength" (it doesn't).

  • actually Lukas to maximise lateral and radial stiffness for a 28 spoke wheel you do 2x lacing. 3x lacing is actually less stiff but for 3x lacing torsional stiffness is higher. Torsional stiffness is maximised with the spoke leaving hub at 90 degrees to a radial line fom the hub axis to the rim.
    Hense 32 spoke wheels are normally done 3x but 28 spoke wheels can be 2x or 3x with 2x giving marginally improved lateral and radial stiffness and as such a wheel has fewer spokes you can argue that it needs the help.

  • More spokes means there are more to break, and more likely you will break one. My next wheelset will be 8 spoke front and rear

  • I think in my first post may have confused by slightly misusing the word 'stronger' (in terms of ultimate 'strength'), but I definitely don't (or didn't) need any more information on different types of stiffness. Thanks Malcolm, I shall continue to build my wheels as I have been doing.

  • yes do that if spokes are not breaking you are doing something right.

    Turkish - I have a 12 spoke wheelset with 88mm deep rims the odd thing is they actually work well and don't break spokes so Lukas you have 16 spokes to many in your rear wheel.

  • Why not zero spokes? No chance of spoke breakage then.

  • Haha, might give it a go one day!

  • Sounds heavy. Have you considered sanding your spokes down?

  • I'm building a wheel and need some help regarding spoke length.

    I'm looking at building an SLX FH-M7000 rear hub to a WTB i21 KOM 650b rim. Finding the erd for the rim was easy, but I'm having trouble translating the supplied measurements for the hub to the DT Swiss Spoke calc.

    I'm needing Pitch circle Diameter L/R, along with the Flange distance L/R. All I'm able to find for the hub is Spoke Bolt Circle L/R, along with the Flange Diameter L/R and a flange distance.

    Is there a simple way to convert these measurements from one to the other? Or do I need to look elsewhere?


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  • Is there a simple way to convert these measurements from one to the other?

    You have all the information you need ("spoke bolt circle" is the pitch circle diameter of the spoke holes) apart from the difference between the left and right flange offsets. For the purpose of calculation, since flange offset has only a small influence on spoke length, you can wing it by assuming that the DS flange will be 20-21mm from centre on a 135mm OLN multi-speed MTB rear freehub, which puts the NDS at 36.4-37.4mm

    As always, it's much better to take your own measurements than to rely on somebody else. It might slow the delivery of spokes if you don't order them until you have the rims and hubs in your hands, but getting the wrong length spokes is worse :)

  • Easton have joined Hed in the "unfeasibly expensive alu rim" club with the 129 GBP R90 SL
    Looks nice enough

  • about 1.6kg in weight. I did think about super CX spokes but then I thought I am being quite silly as it is had some haribo and built some wheels.

  • but it does not look as good as the head. I prefer the look of the velocity aileron which is getting more expensive as well.

  • Does anyone know if there is a disc version of the XR31t? Or one without a machined brake track? Or failing that, another rim with similar specs?

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Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

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