Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

It feels like a crocodile clip might be useful for that.

Silver, shallow profile, ~24mm internal width, 700c/29er rim.. does such a thing exist?

Velocity or Kinlin TL-23.

SimWorks (also made by Velocity):
https://www.sim.works/products/standalone-001?variant=43492111679742

Ok getting a little confused trying to lace up a 2nd hand set of hubs to match the spoke marks on the flanges. The spokes (j bend) with the heads on the inside seemed to have been previously laced trailing to the left (rear of the bike ) on the drive side and leading to the left (front of the bike ) on the non drive side. Is this correct? It means they are effectively crossing in opposite directions. Following the park tools lacing pattern I thought they should be pointing in the same direction once the hub is twisted correctly

Thanks

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For reference following the white and gold spokes on this Park tool lacing tutorial. On my hub the DS spoke would be the white ones and should be leading and facing right (towards front of the bike )

https://www.parktool.com/en-int/blog/repair-help/how-to-build-a-wheel

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I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, but just on the drive side. I have no idea if it causes any real-world effect though?

The spokes with the heads on the outside have the most direct route to the rim and better connection at the hub (blue and red in that image), so on both sides they should be in tension under load (trailing, so pointing to the rear if you're looking at the spokes on the top of the hub).

I've heard of the hub shell being stiff enough that the load from the drive side is transmitted through the hub to the non-drive side trailing spokes, but again, no idea if it makes much difference!

Heads out trailing is traditional, but it doesn't make enough difference to warrant building an old hub in the opposite sense to what has gone before

I've heard of the hub shell being stiff enough that the load from the drive side is transmitted through the hub to the non-drive side trailing spokes

Most modern hubs are pretty stiff in torsion, but #everythingisrubber means even a Chub Hub has slightly more tension change on the drive side than the NDS

Thanks, still can't quite picture the lacing pattern if I follow how it was done before....

So just in case anyone's intersted, the conclusion of this https://www.lfgss.com/comments/16871982/ is essentially that my hand was forced a bit as I was looking more closely at the rear wheel and quite a few of the nipples were visibly corroded and in fact a few were cracked - one flaked to bits at the slightest touch, so I've had the wheel rebuilt with brass nipples and CX-Ray spokes and bearings all replaced as well. All feels perfect and runs quietly and smoothly, finally! So, sounds like the issue was any of the spokes, corroding nipples or worn bearings - can't tell which but glad to have sorted it!

On other news, was putting it all back together and noticed the surface finish of the not that old Ultegra Di2 rear mech is flaking off and looks corroded underneath, so next thing to sort isn't far behind, depressingly enough...

Whenever I'm rebuilding a used hub I will tend to follow the original lacing pattern so that the holes don't get stretched. It's play at the hub hole that can cause a spoke to break. Also to cover up the path of the previously laced spoke. If the hole is already a bit stretched then I'll put on a spoke head washer.

I'm definitely finding spoke calcs the most confusing part of the process, is there a definitive guide/person people recommend?

If I'm getting 291.5mm on a spoke calculation, should I round up or down? It's a front wheel so same length on both sides.

is there a definitive guide/person people recommend?

Get Jobst Brandt's book*, it tells you what the maths is and why you're doing it.

Round down.

*By which I mean download the pirate PDF, since Jobst doesn't need the royalties where he is

Thanks, I've ordered a used copy, the why is definitely what I'm after.

I always use at least two calculators (pro wheel builder and the Leonard one are my preference) and see how they compare.

Results can match closely on one calculation and vary quite a bit on another.

I tend to round up as I really don’t like spokes being too short but it depends, if the rim was particularly shallow I’d maybe round down.

@arup I notice you mentioning that you use a bit of stainless spoke for feeding nipples into sealed rims, do you never have any issues with the stainless spoke not being very magnetic?

It’s symmetrical v asymmetrical lacing innit.

Depends how you start each side? I always start with the ‘inbound’ or heads out spokes.

Can’t remember what name is given to that method and neither way seems particularly symmetrical nor asymmetrical to me.

I’m sure I read somewhere or was told that people tend to build the way they learned, however you build your first few wheels is how you’ll probably build them for the rest of your life and that the difference in strength is so minimal that it’s not worth worrying about anyway.

I think I built one wheel the other way when it was a used hub as you are doing so I guess it’s a good skill to have.

still can't quite picture the lacing pattern if I follow how it was done before....

There’s nothing to say it was built properly previously of course.

I’ve bought ‘hand built’ wheels off eBay etc only to find the valve isn’t boxed or spokes aren’t laced over/under properly when they arrive.

What's the effect of fitting a tyre on the dish of a rear wheel? Is it worth worrying about?

I think you reduce the tension on all the spokes and as one side is higher tension than the other they reduce by either the same percentage but different amounts or the same amounts but different percentages (I reckon the first) so there might be a slight movement to the side, but it shouldn't be enough to worry about, or maybe I'm making that up.

I always round down myself by 1.5mm or so and sometimes up to 2mm. I've written my own spoke calculator which I use for all my builds. The formulas that I've used in the app are from Spocalc.xls by Damon Rinard. Here's the link.

https://wheelbuildingwitharup.co.uk/spoke-calculator/

Yes, you're right. I cut multiple bits of spoke and then used the one that was most magnetic.

I took an empirical approach to this. I've just built up a wheel (700c, Mavic A119 rim - 36H, 20mm internal, laced 3-cross with double-butted alpina spokes). Without the tyre the dish was possibly off by 0.5mm to the NDS, with the tyre (32mm, tubed @80psi) it was pretty central.

So there might be an infinitesmal shift to the drive side.

I have a set of sora 3500 hubs laced to ryde chrina rims (unridden) - I’d like to swap rims to ryde Sputniks - looking at your calc against various others online - It seems like I could get away with re- using the same spokes ? Calc for sora to Sputnik is giving rear left 291 and right 290 and front 295 . Grateful for any light anyone can shed !?