Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Just waiting for the new 13.25X105mm road+sub gravel standard to arrive

I'll take the tyre off at the weekend and see how much nipple I have to play with in the existing setup

Yep worth looking at that as the NDS might need to be shorter, but actually measuring the spokes you have to see if it will work is the only way to know for sure.

Happy to help with calcs if you want to double check em here. Once your spokes are out, measure the ERD of the rim. Most people advise against using measurements from manufacturers or figures you find online.

Just waiting for 98mm front, 126mm rear, 7 speed compact freewheels operated with downtube friction shifters, centrepull rim brakes on 27" rims to arrive

ftfy. Everything comes around.

Should new hubs always be 'buttery' smooth? Do they loosen a little when run in?

Reason I'm asking - I've just bought an XT hub (sold as 'new without packaging' on ebay from a guy who seems chilled) and it's immaculate, clearly never been built up nor had cassette anywhere near it. But I'd expect it to be a little smoother and looser i.e. it feels just a little tight and very, very slightly notchy, and the freehub just a little resistant. As my experience with new hubs is nil, just wondering if this is normal? Thanks.

I've often found new Shimano hubs feel a bit tight from the factory. I usually rebuild them with different grease and higher quality balls, but most people don't and you don't hear a lot of complaints about how they feel or perform once they're built into wheels.

Sometimes the cup and cone ones can come a little tight from the factory to be on the safe side, adjust away.

Just repeating things, sorry.

The plural of anecdote is data 🙂

And all comforting data too in this case, glad it's probably just a quirk of the newness. Thanks both for replying.

I was looking at how to properly adjust Shimano cup and cones after installing a new cone and according to a Youtube guy you should have a tiny bit of play that then gets taken out by the quick release.

Is this actually documented by Shimano anywhere or is it something people have found just works?

It's what I've always done and got taught many years ago on a cytech course, enough play to just about feel but not really see.

Is this actually documented by Shimano anywhere

Not anywhere I've seen, the service manuals assume you have half a clue what you're doing. The advice applies to any QR or through-bolt hub with adjustable bearings, you should account for the compression of the axle by the wheel installation in the frame/fork when setting the bearing clearance.

I’d imagine most of the owners of their OEM wheels wouldn’t be adjusting cones before riding either.

Hypothetical Build:
6700 Rear Hub 36h (because I have it)
Velocity A23 OC 36h (unobtainable right now hence the hypothetical nature of this build)
Sapim Cx-Ray 298mm for both NDS and DS in a 4-cross pattern both sides. (Currently less than €2 each in a box of 20 from bike-components)

Would this be a good build for a tourer / Audax wheel build?

I struggled with spoke windup when I used 1.5mm spokes previously, thinking the cx-rays would help me out there due to the profile.

https://kstoerz.com/freespoke/?link=1&e=602.3&oL=3.3&oR=-3.3&wL=36.5&wR=19&dL=45&dR=45&s=2.5&n=36&xL=4&xR=4

Would this be a good build for a tourer / Audax wheel build?

CX-Rays seem like an extravagance. I'd use DT Alpine III on a build like that, but DT Comp or Sapim Race would be fine too.

How much do you weigh? How much load on the bike? What terrain?

3x tends to be plentiful for the most part, send people on world tours 32x 1/2x for Rohloff 26” wheels.

I've only ever done 4 cross when I already have spokes that are the wrong length.

Has anyone ever done it for a more practical reason?

I always used it on 48 spoke BMX wheels, but not otherwise.

send people on world tours 32x 1/2x for Rohloff 26

Symmetric hubs build into stronger wheels than offset ones. And they specify max. 2 cross only because it’s a necessity considering the size of the hub :)

Absolutely, and normally we never go above 3x for 26/700 with normal hubs! 4x is overkill unless super heavyweight etc

Sean Burns doesn't even need 48 hole

Not only that but at 36 spokes wheel it may be a good chunk of the full build for hardly any benefit. Do a 32 hole with normal spokes.

Seems a rather odd build, to be honest. You have a durable but heavy hub with expensive but light spokes, so many that the aero benefits of bladed spokes will be minimal, with a rather shallow and old-fashioned rim.

If you're absolutely set on using the 36h rear hub I think a Kinlin XR31T from Spa Cycles in 36h format and some ACI Alpina spokes would be a more coherent and sensible build. Much as I love CX-Rays.

Kinlin XR31T

If this thread had a FAQ, the first answer would be "If you're not using XR31s on a metal-rim build, think again" 🙂

XR31RT would probably be first choice if he can wait until Spa have them back in stock in 36H

Thanks everyone for your input. I’m a big unit, dropping the Kg’s gradually. 120kg right now.

I did 4 days of touring and bike (Nigel Dean world tour from this very forum) plus rider plus luggage was about 160kg.

About 20 months ago I had spa cycles build me a ultegra hub, sapim strong DS, sapim Race NDS, 36h Kinlin XR31T wheel and it was superb.

That build came about with some help from this exact thread.

After a year of use it was straight and true, absolutely zero issues but the brake track was showing signs of wear. 50km into a 200km spin I got some brake rub with a bulge in the brake track, right at the location of the valve. Slackened the brake and finished the spin.

Corrosion at the valve hole led to a split in the rim. Unfortunately no 36h rims in stock at spa, then or since so my preferred build got torn down and rebuilt with new double butted spokes and an Mavic A719 rim.

The new build is fine, a few issues with NDS tension, a bit of occasional brake rub when I haul my ass out of the saddle. It’s fine, but not perfect.

There is the background to my hypothetical build question. Thought process was stick with 36h for the time being with 32h on the horizon when I shed some more body mass.

I’ll do some research and come back with additional questions. Alpine III look interesting. Thanks.