eBay problems, resolutions, shenanigans, questions and info (not bike finds)

If a buyer initiates the dispute process, and comes with an offer, the seller can decline and immediately escalate the dispute to a claim. At that point, the buyer can no longer provide information, or, as was the case with me, contradict the seller's false information.

I didn't know about this but in my opinion I'd say it was to stop you getting buyers remorse and asking for some of your money back.

I've had to open a few disputes for things like this and always find the best course of action is to just open the dispute, state the facts and let the seller respond with an offer, or - as has happened a few times, mostly when stuff has been slow to arrive and then has not been as described once its finally gotten here - not respond at all in which case you might end up with your money back and no request to return the item.

For 'item not as described' disputes I'd go with eBay but if you have bought something and it's not turned up, Paypal can be quicker at getting you your money back that eBay.They don't make you wait so long before opening the dispute for a start.

I didn't know about this but in my opinion I'd say it was to stop you getting buyers remorse and asking for some of your money back.

I don't think I understand entirely how PayPal stopping you from contradicting seller's false claims is supposed to help against buyer's remorse. I received an item that was very different from the one advertised, seller contradicted me saying it was clearly pictured (completely untrue), immediately escalated my dispute to a claim. PayPal decided "in my favor" without consulting me, allowing me to return the item but at my own expense. In other words, it seems they decided that what I received was due to a misunderstanding, not fraud from the seller's end. Next time shipping charges are more than half of the item price and I feel sure of the seller's intent to mislead, I suppose will state the item to be worthless to me, instead of suggesting a partial refund.

I've had to open a few disputes for things like this and always find the best course of action is to just open the dispute, state the facts and let the seller respond with an offer, or - as has happened a few times, mostly when stuff has been slow to arrive and then has not been as described once its finally gotten here - not respond at all in which case you might end up with your money back and no request to return the item.

I agree that it seems better not to suggest a partial refund yourself.
When your seller is actively looking to mislead and not too stupid about it, you will lose out either way, I am sure.

I wasn't saying its buyers remorse in this instance, just that paypal/ebay might be of the opinion that that type of behaviour is inductive of buyers remorse.

As a seller it'd probably put my back up a bit if a buyer opened a dispute asking straight away for say, a 10% refund. I'd rather be given an opportunity to offer a resolution.

As a seller I know paypal will take the buyers side more often in these cases so if I had a £200 sale that I thought I'd been open and descriptive enough about - maybe I even think if have liked the price to go higher - and the buyer came looking for a £50 refund I'd probably think that I was better off getting my goods back to resell.

How long should I wait for something supposedly sold a week ago and on special delivery (but only "posted" sunday) before opening INR?

And should i open that dispute on ebay or paypal - does it even make a difference anymore

tbh, if you look at the pictures carefully, especially driveside, it really looks as though the dimple was there all along.

make him bleeeeeed

Ok, so long and the short of this.......I still have the bike.

However, the seller agreed to refund approx. £380 for the bike (bought for $660 + $300 shipping so $980 all in).

So I have a partial refund and the bike.

I will sell the parts locally, forks must worth at least £100 and the wheels a bit more so should re-coup most my initial outlay.

Moral of the story? Shit happens.

How long should I wait for something supposedly sold a week ago and on special delivery (but only "posted" sunday) before opening INR?

And should i open that dispute on ebay or paypal - does it even make a difference anymore
As soon as you get the feeling you've been mugged.

Opening a dispute might just be the kick up the arse they need, or it will get you your money back sooner. If everything is above board, then nothing's been lost.

EB first then PP, but I doubt it'll come to that.

Case opened today. He claimed to have sent it sunday special delivery so there's no way it wouldn't be here, and he's ignored my last message, so the mugged feeling is beginning.

Are post offices even open on sundays?

Refund hasn't been accepted yet, but I have faith it will.

And now everything has arrived. Time to start building! I spotted a tasty centaur 10sp group in good nick...

Case opened today. He claimed to have sent it sunday special delivery so there's no way it wouldn't be here, and he's ignored my last message, so the mugged feeling is beginning.
tracking reference?

Are post offices even open on sundays?

Some are, yes.

Order placed on
Tuesday, 1 July 2014

grey/neutral feedback - seller took days to post out the item, no message or reason given

Get this today.

I've just seen your feedback. I just want to check some facts here:

1. from my spreadsheet this was paid for on 2 July and 2nd class was paid for.
   
2. from my spreadsheet also this was sent this on 4th July, first class.
   
   

Do you disagree with either of these? (It's possible I sent it later and recorded this incorrectly so I really want to confirm if we agree on that).

1. Please see the original advertisement.
   
   

In the description text we write, "We do two mail outs per week so items are almost always dispatched 1-3 working days after purchase." And perhaps more importantly in the postage and payments tab it says "Will usually dispatch within 3 working days of receiving cleared payment."

Ebay sales make up 30-40% of the income I make from this business, the prominence of my listings and so the sales I can make is impacted by the feedback I get.

If I'm right about the above I'd appreciate you amending your feedback and also any detailed feedback you've given.

Thanks,
Matt

• mattempleton
  

It was posted on the Monday(7th and arrived Tuesday) had he bothered to tell me he couldn't be fucked I would have cycled over and collected it.

Sprocket also isn't dicta he has just taken some random sprocket and shoved it into a dicta freewheel box(putting a 19t sprocket in an 18t freewheel box doesnt makes it dicta branded).

Piss on his chips by opening an item not as described dispute.

Piss on his chips by opening an item not as described dispute.

I can't be fucked. I'm going to revise the feedback if I find how to negative saying "left neutral slow post, harrased to revise feedback"

Also noticed despite my instant PayPal payment at the time of order he hasn't given me feedback and I'm guessing I will get a negative now for being a bad buyer somehow.

Sellers can't give buyers negative feedback :)

I don't get how he expects this to make it better?

From: mattempleton
To: clockwise-uk
Subject: Re: mattempleton sent a message about 19T Dicta Fixed Gear Sprocket | 1/8" | Chrome Plated Finish | Optional Lock Ring #271211109308
Sent Date: 10-Jul-14 16:26:11 BST

Dear clockwise-uk,

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your message.

I'm sorry if you feel I was hounding you. I really was not intending to and am not intending to do so now. I just wanted to have a conversation about this.

Ebay has a process for altering feedback if the seller feels it is mistaken or somehow unfair.

I felt this was the case (on first reading of the facts when I looked at my spreadsheet and had confirmed the details on our ad) and I believe that Ebay asks sellers to try to discuss making such a change before taking any other kind of action.

It is for that reason that I approached you directly rather than through some other process.

I am hoping that you feel comfortable carrying on the conversation, please do let me know.

Matt

• mattempleton
  
  
  

From: clockwise-uk
To: mattempleton
Subject: Re: mattempleton sent a message about 19T Dicta Fixed Gear Sprocket | 1/8" | Chrome Plated Finish | Optional Lock Ring #271211109308
Sent Date: 10-Jul-14 15:19:28 BST

Dear mattempleton,

My order summary reads.

Order placed on
Tuesday, 1 July 2014

I'm going to look into changing it to negative feedback as hounding people to change an honest opinion is underhanded.

• clockwise-uk
  

Harassed?

The seller replied with a polite enquiry in response to your feedback.

He comes across as very reasonable: offering up the possibility that his records are wrong and asking for your confirmation of the facts.

Did you order within business hours? The fact you say you ordered on 1st July and he says he was paid on 2nd July suggests not.

How do you know it was posted on 7th July? The postmark or tracking number: it is entirely possible that something posted on a Friday wasn't processed and postmarked until Monday.

Either way, you received it within five working days, which as you paid for second class post, is entirely reasonable.

And your response? To leave even worse feedback that is just as inaccurate as the first you left (assuming you can be fucked).

Of course you've shot yourself in the foot with this storm in a teacup, as you've lost the opportunity to return the item on legitimate grounds. Not that you deserve it, but he's probably done you a favour: Dicta are shit.

Harassed?

The seller replied with a polite enquiry in response to your feedback.

He comes across as very reasonable: offering up the possibility that his records are wrong and asking for your confirmation of the facts.

Did you order within business hours? The fact you say you ordered on 1st July and he says he was paid on 2nd July suggests not.

How do you know it was posted on 7th July? The postmark or tracking number: it is entirely possible that something posted on a Friday wasn't processed and postmarked until Monday.

Either way, you received it within five working days, which as you paid for second class post, is entirely reasonable.

And your response? To leave even worse feedback that is just as inaccurate as the first you left (assuming you can be fucked).

Of course you've shot yourself in the foot with this storm in a teacup, as you've lost the opportunity to return the item on legitimate grounds. Not that you deserve it, but he's probably done you a favour: Dicta are shit.

Really? Here is the order summary I'm seeing.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t171/pimptasticmofo/ebay_zps8699557f.jpg

I haven't bothered to reply again. I did think to myself how would he package/post a freewheel that has been removed from it's packaging but thinking about that too much just makes me laugh...

If I had spent more on 1st class special delivery super dogs bollux class postage and he waited 3 days before posting it out then the outcome would be the same. Royal mails service is out of his control but he just took time sending it from his "shop".

Dear clockwise-uk,

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I accept your comments on the despatch time and we do hope to do a daily despatch at some point soon.

But I still hope that this feedback and particularly any detailed seller rating under 3 (which as I say fundamentally affects the business) can be altered because I think we should get a good rating if we do what we promise even if you'd rather it was a quicker service. On this basis I am opening such a request.

Regarding the sprockets, I purchase these directly from Dicta, who do not offer a packaged version (though they do for their freewheels) and they don't put branding on them. I pack them in freewheel boxes at the moment to save packaging as I am concerned about the climate and keeping costs (and in turn prices) low.

I should also add here that having looked up the email I received from Paypal, as well as my ebay account listing for sale and paid date, both have 2 July for your purchase.

Matt

- mattempleton

From: clockwise-uk
To: mattempleton
Subject: Re: mattempleton sent a message about 19T Dicta Fixed Gear Sprocket | 1/8" | Chrome Plated Finish | Optional Lock Ring #271211109308
Sent Date: 10-Jul-14 16:53:18 BST

Dear mattempleton,

If eBay have a process for changing feedback then feel free to start that. It's rather simple tho that I ordered something and you took your time. Would it be fair to leave positive perfect 5 star feedback when your turn around is so slow?

Also putting an unbranded 19t track sprocket into a 18t dicta freewheel box doesn't make it a dicta sprocket. I just wanted a 19t sprocket for a good gear ratio but some people hate that.

I can't see where this talk is going as I said it's my honest opinion of how it went which isn't negative but isn't positive, it is what it is.

- clockwise-uk

There's something you haven't ringed in red: it's where it says "estimated delivery Wednesday, 9 July - Thursday, 10 July".

When was it you received it? A day early?

So let's see if I've got this straight:

• you left unjustified feedback;
  
• the seller attempts to resolve this, asking for confirmation of his records;
  
• you unjustly accuse him of harassing you;
  
• you "haven't bothered to reply"; but have bothered to post about it on here.
  

There's something you haven't ringed in red: it's where it says "estimated delivery Wednesday, 9 July - Thursday, 10 July".

When was it you received it? A day early?

So let's see if I've got this straight:

• you left unjustified feedback;
  
• the seller attempts to resolve this, asking for confirmation of his records;
  
• you unjustly accuse him of harassing you;
  
• you "haven't bothered to reply"; but have bothered to post about it on here.
  

That date is based on the date he marked it as dispatched/posted, had he done that on the 1st or 2nd it would say 3rd or 4th but it was posted on the 7th and so says 9th.

• I left a neuteral feedback of "seller took days to post out the item, no message or reason given"
  
• The seller messages me to change this and hopes "his records" will sway me despite them being shifted dates, you can see the pic above with the dates or would ebay and paypal record that wrongly?
  
• Sending multiple messages after to change his feedback score is harassing, I used the word hounding but whatever. I'm perfectly within my right to my opinion of his shop and the service I got regardless of if he likes it or not.
  
• Read my posts, you can see my multiple responses to him.
  

Hi Everyone,

My name is Matt, I run the Single Speed Components shop on Ebay under the username mattempleton, the subject of some discussion by Clockwise and a few others above.

I have not contributed to LFGSS over the past few years because of the potential conflict between my commercial activities and the community basis of the forum.

I hope you will do me the courtesy of reading my messages in the above quoted exchanges and my contribution below before you draw any conclusion on this.

I wish absolutely no bad blood to anyone at all here least of all Chris/Clockwise, and I know that distance selling can cause frustrations for the buyer, but I would like to have my position made clear.

1. Some Facts
   
   

My Ebay and Paypal Records do point to this item having been purchased on 2 July. Please see two screen grabs:

Paypal's Payment Email to me, time and date top right: http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff520/singlespeedcomponents/LFGSS/paypaltimelfgss-02_zps4c98864d.jpg

Ebay Record in my Account, buyer ID top, product middle, checkout and payment date at bottom - (Please click to enlarge this to view dates) http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff520/singlespeedcomponents/LFGSS/lfgss-01_zps753957c2.jpg

I have cut out a lot of data because I do not want to compromise the privacy of the buyer, I have left his Christian name which he has already revealed in our correspondence.

I hope this shows me not to have been dishonest about this date. The only explanation I can think of is that the purchase process started before midnight and Ebay is inconsistent in its recording of purchase time.

1. More Facts
   
   

Chris claims two further things in his posts:

A. That the status of this item was changed to posted/despatched on 7th of July;

B. That the Ebay sentence on his screen grab which says 'Estimated delivery Wednesday, 9th July - Thursday, 10 July' was triggered by me changing the status to despatched on 7th of July.

He says, "That date is based on the date he marked it as dispatched/posted, had he done that on the 1st or 2nd it would say 3rd or 4th but it was posted on the 7th and so says 9th."

First of all Chris did not feed this perspective back to me in our conversation yesterday, this would have been useful for me understanding his perspective.

But secondly, having looked into this these seem both to be incorrect:

A. Please again refer to the original Ebay screen grab (here again, http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff520/singlespeedcomponents/LFGSS/lfgss-01_zps753957c2.jpg ). Near the bottom of the page it gives 2nd July for Checkout and Payment as we just saw.

However look to the right of those two, and it also gives 4th July for Postage date. This corresponds to when I marked it as sent on the Ebay system. One can not set this retrospectively as far as I know, let alone amend it. So I am sure that I made this status change on 4th July, which is why it reflects that date.

And now, again on the same Ebay screen grab look to just below where it says 'Checkout: 02-Jul-14'. It also says 'Last email sent: 04-Jul-14 (2)'. When I expand that it opens a new window - a 'log of emails' - which you can see grabbed here, http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff520/singlespeedcomponents/LFGSS/3lfgss-03_zpsda554ded.jpg.

There are only two entries in this: an order confirmation which is about 40 seconds after the Paypal email so makes total sense. And an ‘order update’ on 4 July 5.57pm. This second is almost certainly the postage confirmation email which will have been sent when I clicked to make the status change.

B. This is also incorrect.

Ebay customer services are not open for me to get them to verify this but I am very confident that the estimated delivery time is generated at the time of purchase based on the service paid for and expected despatch time. So, a purchase on 2 July is projected to be sent three working days later on Monday 7th July; it's a 2nd class service so they estimate 2-3 days postage, taking us to 9-10 July.

But anyway I have shown above that the status was changed not on the 7th but on the 4th so this explanation no longer functions and nor does the argument it was trying to support.

1. My Original Message
   
   

I'm sorry that Chris thought I was being underhand or hounding in my first email but the reality is that I have to try to resolve this kind of issue as part of running my business. And to reiterate Ebay requests that sellers try to resolve these things by contacting the buyer before initiating any other feedback altering process.

I sought clarification from him of some facts in my original message because I do make mistakes, and if for example it seemed from a post mark that I'd actually sent this say a week late then rather than seek to get the feedback changed I would actually have offered a big apology for failing to deliver what I should have, I'd have probably told him he could have a couple of tubes with his next order if he was willing to stay on as a customer. I make mistakes as I think most people do, I want to rectify them when I do as best as I can.

I have several times in the past opened up discussions like this with buyers - sometimes they agree they've made a mistake, sometimes I realise I've made a mistake and we sort it out. I don't think this is inappropriate, I think it's good customer service and good communication. I may have been a bit direct because I'm used to having these conversations but I think it was a fair message and that being direct is usually useful anyway.

1. Ebay Feedback
   
   

Notwithstanding the above my business is profoundly impacted on by the feedback and detailed seller ratings I get. I and Ebay think that it is wrong for a purchaser to give poor ratings inappropriately and to give inappropriate stated reasons for such ratings - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buying-practices.html#behaviors. See sections, making unreasonable demands and leaving inappropriate feedback. I surely have the right to seek redress when I think this may be happening, as a matter of basic fairness.

1. Dicta Allegation
   
   

Finally, I take extremely seriously the publication here online of the allegation that I passed off a non-Dicta product as a Dicta one – “Sprocket also isn't dicta he has just taken some random sprocket and shoved it into a dicta freewheel box.”

I'm always very happy to respond to questions over the provenance or any other detail of my products or the way I pack things but to put it mildly I don’t think it is acceptable to accuse me in a public arena of what I think would be fraud, and without even informing me of it.

To be clear, this is absolutely untrue. I have worked hard and put up a considerable amount of money to purchase and import a range of products from Lida Machinery Co. (whose brand Dicta is) and other suppliers across the world in the bulk required, and then to get them out to consumers to build this business.

To repeat my emailed explanation: "Regarding the sprockets, I purchase these directly from Dicta, who do not offer a packaged version (though they do for their freewheels) and they don't put branding on them. I pack them in freewheel boxes at the moment to save packaging as I am concerned about the climate and keeping costs (and in turn prices) low."

And to respond to this extra bit from the thread: “I did think to myself how would he package/post a freewheel that has been removed from it's packaging.”

Good question.

And here is your answer: The freewheel from that packaging – like hundreds like it - was fitted to one of the hundreds of wheelsets I and my colleagues have dispatched in the past four years with fitted cogs.

I am happy to respond to any further question/suggestions on this matter.

Keep cycling,

Matt Templeton

Fucking hell.

Imma pull up a chair.

why?

man's been perfectly civil and defending his turf in the face of some pretty petty moaning about someone getting what they paid for within a reasonable, stated time frame then throwing toys out the pram on here and making allegations of shiftyness.

as the oh so wise Linda McCartney would perhaps say, 'Let it be... life's too short to be chained to a total prick... oh.'

I still don't see anything wrong with a "neutral" feedback and saying that you have taken a few days to dispatch. As I have said it would be unfair to say it was a 5* perfect dispatch and also unfair to say it was a negative experience.

Why don't you have a solicitor send me a cease and desist for saying service was "just ok".

Hi,

Anyone know HMA, he purchased my Bonts off me (http://www.lfgss.com/thread129610.html) and paid.

I know he was going away, and was going to update me with a postal address but that was a few weeks ago. I have messaged him a few times requesting a postal address but nothing heard back.

Just want to get his shoes out to him and was wondering if anyone knew him or had an update? As said he paid me fine, and I would like to send him his purchase.

Cheers Twist