Lance Armstrong... greatest doper there was or ever will be

Come on Lance! Just say yes

USADA has just called for a truth and reconciliation thingy.

USADA has just called for a truth and reconciliation thingy.

Group hug?

USADA has just called for a lies and recrimination thingy.

ftfy

Prudhomme wants $3m repaid. Which is cool because LA would have shared the $3m out even though all was paid to him.

I'm pretty sure the forum paid him a few million for one of those wins too. Come on lance, give us the fucking money.

I'm sure the american government will want to have a word or two about the Postal Service sponsorship as well - that'll file under fraud if I understand things correctly, and the whistleblower legislations might triple the numbers(?)

This whole debacle has certainly put Greg Lemond's efforts to reveal the truth into some perspective.

Come on Lance. Fess up and give me some money.

I've mixed feelings about today.

I'm pleased that Armstrong has finally got his comeuppance, which is long overdue in my opinion. He's a liar, a cheat and a bully and no amount of work for cancer can excuse how he's behaved in the past 15 years.

I didn't expect the UCI to do anything more than they've done so, for the sake of the professional side of the sport, there needs to be a breakaway league with the major teams and the race organisers taking over control and jettisoning the UCI, who can then focus on the development of the amateur side of the sport ensuring that anyone who wants to compete on a bike, regardless of where they live, has an opportunity. The breakaway league needs to ensure that the likes of Bruyneel, Riis, Ekimov and all those others who have been active in promoting doping are not involved.

I don't think a breakaway organisation would be seen as feasible or sensible. What really needs to happen is for various country's cycling governing bodies to get together and approach the UCI with a vote of no confidence, and to re-structure those roles and personell within it.

Will that happen? Of course it fucking won't , they are all mates in the old boys network which runs cycling at all levels, many have chequered pasts which would need to be fully admitted before any such movement could take place.

House of cards or domino rally?

Lance's getting away with it was, in part, a failure of journalism. Fear of being blackballed, of not having the cover story that would add thousands to the circulation, of advertsisers pulling out, journalists getting too cosy with athletes and being flattered in to quiescence.
Will anything change now in other sports? Will writers on athletics speak up about their suspicions, about the records, set by known dopers, that keep getting broken, about the training camps and disreputable trainers and doctors? Will they dare to put two and two together?
No, I don't think so either.

Lance's getting away with it was, in part, a failure of journalism. Fear of being blackballed, of not having the cover story that would add thousands to the circulation, of advertsisers pulling out, journalists getting too cosy with athletes and being flattered in to quiescence.
Will anything change now in other sports? Will writers on athletics speak up about their suspicions, about the records, set by known dopers, that keep getting broken, about the training camps and disreputable trainers and doctors? Will they dare to put two and two together?
No, I don't think so either.

There were a few exceptions in Paul Kimmage and David Walsh but the same thing is happening now with Team Sky.

Even Wiggins compared Sky to Banesto and USPS...

Today is a depressing day for the sport of cycling. UCI: Lance cheated and is persona non grata. Now let's move on and change nothing

the same thing is happening now with Team Sky.

Even Wiggins compared Sky to Banesto and USPS...

+1

There is no doubt that there is an uncritical reception at the moment. Both the performance level and the PR and rhetoric of Sky need to be examined closely, but it hasn't happened because they are British.

Hopefully Greg Lemond will no longer be called jealous bitter by many in the US. He should now rightly re-take his mantle as the greatest American Cyclist of all time.

Does a dope free peloton lead to less interesting racing? Especially on the grand tours?

I'd rather get into the tactics, teamwork and close racing from a clean(ish) peloton than watch the random rider who's chosen today to dose, race and win.

A bit like Sky this year. Not that I think they were on the sauce, but it was a dull tour.

I've never seen a dull tour. Maybe 2012 was a little predictable for GC contention but I thought it was good tour for unpredictable stage wins, the polkadot and white jerseys, and chicken dances.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/10/22/lance-armstrong-jogging-photo-livestrong-nike/

https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/260358403786960896/photo/1

says it all really

Are the uci still planning to sue Kimmage?

There were a few exceptions in Paul Kimmage and David Walsh but the same thing is happening now with Team Sky.

Even Wiggins compared Sky to Banesto and USPS...

+1

There is no doubt that there is an uncritical reception at the moment. Both the performance level and the PR and rhetoric of Sky need to be examined closely, but it hasn't happened because they are British.

I think the opposite is true. And I think a reasonable, and reasoned, scepticism has been replaced with an unthinking one.
There were always reasons to wonder about Armstrong, as there were about every successful rider from the early nineties on. No EPO test, no biological passport. By 1998 and Festina any doubts were gone; doping was rife. He tested positive for cortisone the next year. In 2000 the team doctor was observed getting rid of medical waste including Actovegin. And on and on until 1995 when L'Equpe published proof of his doping.
There is nothing comparable with Wiggins or Sky and there is much more questioning of them, across many more types of media than existed in the 90s. Remember why Wiggins blew his top in that press conference at the Tour? Because journalists were asking him about doping, they were being sceptical.
Sky and Brailsford have everything to lose if just one of their riders is caught cheating. They may have handled a lot of it ineptly but I still see no reasonable grounds to believe they are involved in doping, either as a team or as individuals. I think many journalists and editors, who know how compromised they have been in the past, do not want to play that game anymore. They will also have a harder time doing it with so many blogs and on line news sources nipping at their heels.
It all reminds me of people who say all MPs are self serving bastards; some are, but not all and it's lazy not to try and take a more nuanced view.

I like this

On one hand, Laurent Jalabert told L'Equipe that it was “difficult for the UCI to react differently. ... Anyway, he's a great champion, he was a huge talent", while on the other Eric Boyer called Armstrong "manipulative, narcissistic and wicked".

I know who I would want in charge of the French national team out of those two.

I think the opposite is true. And I think a reasonable, and reasoned, scepticism has been replaced with an unthinking one.
There were always reasons to wonder about Armstrong, as there were about every successful rider from the early nineties on. No EPO test, no biological passport. By 1998 and Festina any doubts were gone; doping was rife. He tested positive for cortisone the next year. In 2000 the team doctor was observed getting rid of medical waste including Actovegin. And on and on until 1995 when L'Equpe published proof of his doping.
There is nothing comparable with Wiggins or Sky and there is much more questioning of them, across many more types of media than existed in the 90s. Remember why Wiggins blew his top in that press conference at the Tour? Because journalists were asking him about doping, they were being sceptical.
Sky and Brailsford have everything to lose if just one of their riders is caught cheating. They may have handled a lot of it ineptly but I still see no reasonable grounds to believe they are involved in doping, either as a team or as individuals. I think many journalists and editors, who know how compromised they have been in the past, do not want to play that game anymore. They will also have a harder time doing it with so many blogs and on line news sources nipping at their heels.
It all reminds me of people who say all MPs are self serving bastards; some are, but not all and it's lazy not to try and take a more nuanced view.

I think it's more important now than ever to keep questioning though.

Team Sky are supposed to be the transparent zero tolerance team but they haven't been doing enough to show this and that's why doubt is creeping in.

Wiggins having a tantrum doesn't help - he used to be a lot more eloquent and outspoken about doping.

They're all fart and no poo when it comes to their anti-doping stance and they need to really start living up to their promises.

Is there any truth in the rumour Lance is replacing Bez onstage in the Happy Mondays?

He's has all the right credentials and has access to some high grade dope. Dr Ferrari backstage mixing up the medicine...Sorted

No but there are rumours of one Ryder who doped on that team

It is worth remembering that rest days are mostly Mondays in the Tour.

I reckon quite a lots of pro rider met with Ferrari at some stage, some work with him, some don't.

Wow, you really know your onion.

I have nowhere to put them.

Single again?

Well, it's all a bit of a shame isn't it? LA is the whipping boy for a sport in which everyone and their mum seems to have been bang at it. Hopefully this will be the end of it and we'll have a new cleaner era of cycling.

As for Lance, dark prince he may now be, but he's still responsible for a lot of my favourite cycling moments, and I won't be giving up my Livestrong Oakley Radars any time soon. Drugs or not, there's a bit of me that's always going to rate him...

I think not so much whipping boy as the biggest name and by all accounts, one of the biggest twats. In principle I hate the idea of one man being picked on as much as he is experiencing now but probably worse than that is the idea of a man being entirely corrupt in the pursuit of his own success.

You're right though. His time made for some truly great cycling on TV and very little will change that.