Tour de France 2012

This debate about Wiggins and doping - lay off it a while. He's the least likely to dope - too much to lose. Evans - unlikely too - the man has guts and good to see the champ attacking. He's a great rider and I suspect what we're up for is two men and a war of attrition. Wiggins has the team, Evans the hardness. It's gonna be a great, though I thought it might not be. Shaping up well with the mountains yet to start.

Cav - obvious - he's riding for the team and not lost an inch of pace - just picking his times and proving himself a generous domestique - he will leave Sky and become one of the greatest sprinters anyone has seen - a la Robbie McEwan or Erik Zabel.

This race has potential and it will become Wiggins v Evans and Wiggins will have to find depths he hasn't had top find before.

Nibali - the Nibbler.

Although in my eart I always want some crazy Italian or Frenchman to win. And a fantastic ride by the young Frenchman.

On a final note - having watched for years, ITV4 is good. But the dream team would be Kelly and Liggett. And anyone says Liggett doesn't know shit is a cock. The odd mistake? - David Duffield was v enjoyable but made mistakes often.

I like it. ITV4 is no bad thing.

If you want to complain about commentary - watch football.

Where?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-meeting-with-aso-is-routine-team-says

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/clean-sky-on-the-horizon

But it's not public blood data like when Wiggo was at Garmin. That just said they showed training data to ASO.

That could mean they friended ASO on Strava :)

Great to see Marc Madiot urging his young man on too. Great stage win.

It was a great stage today. He looked shell shocked at the end. I wonder how he'll pull up in the TT? I'd want a bloody lie in.

Probably been listening to that trouble-maker wiganwil...

I am coming round to WW's perspective. I can change my view can't I?

Dominating Paris-Nice, Romandie and the Dauphine is one thing. Seeing the same thing at the Tour is more surprising. Froome in particular falls squarely into the unbelievable category.

Wiggins rant adds to my concerns rather than diminishing them.

Wiggins has always ranted and been up front in his thoughts. Nor is it really a rant. I'd be fucking peeved if I heard that shit.

Froome? Not unbelievable - seven days in to the Tour and a man works hard and finds an extra bit of strength at the end on the possibly only day this year he might have a chance of a stage win?

If he'd been on a solo attack for two thirds of the race or been well behind and then overtaken everyone.....then sure. But no, he was riding for his team, knew Bradley wasn't after or available for beating Evans in the final push - go for it.

how are Froome's performances unbelievable? whats your basis?

Nor did Wiggins dominate those races. He won but not in a crazy way.

Crazy is Landis or Virenque or Pantani

But it's not public blood data like when Wiggo was at Garmin. That just said they showed training data to ASO.

That could mean they friended ASO on Strava :)

Exactly. It's more PR than substance.

Great to see Marc Madiot urging his young man on too. Great stage win.

yeah. It's the sort of thing i want to show to people who don't understand cycling as a sport or a spectator sport to demonstrate how amazing the tour is.

Raw passion, guts and energy and a crazy middle aged dude screaming from a car then hugging his mate

Yeah, in sport there's the mad father/mother figure hoping for success for their child (ref - Tiger Woods, tennis players), this was, boy, they're catching you, do it with all you got. You can win.

And Madiot won Paris Roubaix so he knows the glory

how are Froome's performances unbelievable? whats your basis?

No palmares until the age of 26, when he breaks through with second at a grand tour. Possibly explicable because the Vuelta is 'a chipper', but now he is lighting it up at the tour as well. First mountain finish, and he leaves an elite field in shreds then finds the extra to leave Evans and Wiggins as well.

Either he didnt train until the age of 26, or he is benefiting immensely from the marginal gains of Sky. If they can take a rider who seemed anonymous at pro tour level until last year, what could they do with a rider like Gesink (who Froome is now head and shoulders above)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Wiggins#Palmar.C3.A8s

This debate about Wiggins and doping - lay off it a while. He's the least likely to dope - too much to lose. Evans - unlikely too - the man has guts and good to see the champ attacking. He's a great rider and I suspect what we're up for is two men and a war of attrition. Wiggins has the team, Evans the hardness. It's gonna be a great, though I thought it might not be. Shaping up well with the mountains yet to start.

Cav - obvious - he's riding for the team and not lost an inch of pace - just picking his times and proving himself a generous domestique - he will leave Sky and become one of the greatest sprinters anyone has seen - a la Robbie McEwan or Erik Zabel.

This race has potential and it will become Wiggins v Evans and Wiggins will have to find depths he hasn't had top find before.

Nibali - the Nibbler.

Although in my eart I always want some crazy Italian or Frenchman to win. And a fantastic ride by the young Frenchman.

On a final note - having watched for years, ITV4 is good. But the dream team would be Kelly and Liggett. And anyone says Liggett doesn't know shit is a cock. The odd mistake? - David Duffield was v enjoyable but made mistakes often.

I like it. ITV4 is no bad thing.

If you want to complain about commentary - watch football.

^ all of this. comes down to whether wiggins gets cracked in the mountains which you could see happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Wiggins#Palmar.C3.A8s

Was talking about Froome. No doubt Wiggins is and always has been a real talent.

Froome was always a good rider. Nothing until you're 26 - normal behaviour with a good team.

And he ain't lighting it up - he just won well a middling hard stage early on. No disrespect to him.

I'm not sure he really "left" Evans and Wiggins either. More they had other concerns.

No palmares until the age of 26, when he breaks through with second at a grand tour. Possibly explicable because the Vuelta is 'a chipper', but now he is lighting it up at the tour as well. First mountain finish, and he leaves an elite field in shreds then finds the extra to leave Evans and Wiggins as well.

Either he didnt train until the age of 26, or he is benefiting immensely from the marginal gains of Sky. If they can take a rider who seemed anonymous at pro tour level until last year, what could they do with a rider like Gesink (who Froome is now head and shoulders above)?

Start with this: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Froome[/ame] noticing that he turned pro in 2007 riding in south africa. Then rode for Barloworld who were shit but still as a young and inexperienced rider was 12th in the young rider category in the 2008 tour and 7th in the young rider during the 2009 Giro. That was enough to be signed by Sky in 2009 as a domestique. However in 2010 he picks up a parasitic worm infection : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-still-battling-parasitic-infection and the Vuelta was his comeback which he admittedly did very well in.

IMO that career path shows a young rider with promise who rode for years as a domestique and then got badly ill is finally fulfilling his promise when he should be nearing his physical peak anyway. Good on him

I am coming round to WW's perspective. I can change my view can't I?

You've completely misunderstood my perspective. I think Wiggins is clean, I think Froome is clean, I think Sky are clean. As I said in that thread. My point is that it's easy to to take the template of lies, evasions and excuses that dopers used to use, fit it, roughly but not actually accurately, over Sky's success and say voila!

real shame about sanchez. and also tommy voeckler's woes after last year's heroics.

another exciting day. well done Pinot, first french stage win of the year (i think). tomorrow should see some significant time gaps emerge between the GC names and hopefully give people a reason to attack from then on

Today's predictions;

Cancellara first
Martin second by a small margin
Wiggins around sixth with three seconds into Cuddles and another two in Nibali.

Regards, Bumface, he doesn't get accused of doping because he uses sonic interference to control the minds of his accusers. Obvs realy

Anyone got a link to the start times for the time trial today?

re the alleged doping of bradley , err doesnt he ride with team gb which dave brailsford turned into world class unbeatables ? doesnt brailsford now work for sky ?

I'm not so convinced on a Cancellara first, I think yesterday will have taken it out of him a little. Martin's a good bet for first though, and perhaps Wiggins for second or third with Cancellara taking the second or third too..

If Froome keeps up this form he will need to move team next year and look to contest GC.