Brooklyn Machine Works

The Gangsta is made in Tawian.

The original Gangsta fork is made in the states.

They released the geo sheet for the new Gangsta, only in two size, one is 55.4cm TT, and the other is 57.2cm.

Oooh the red one is pretty!

Magic! Large, knockoff sta copy for mega dollar (ok it uses true temper tubing). This frame also has a massive carbon footprint. By my reckoning the tubing has first gone across the pacific to taiwan, then the frames back to america and then over the atlantic to TFG. This is what your paying for, not a particularly superior product.

so why a ESB from 14 cost you more or lees the same?

Hand made exclusivity?

'sta'?

what is "sta", mbxconan?

its a bmx frame made by standard byke co.

The STA, (Stronger Than All), was the first of the modern freestyle frames. Debuted in 1993, the STA was the first freestyle frame to use a threadless fork and stem. This frame was the pioneer in the over sized tubing explosion. The philosophy behind this frame is maximum strength and long lasting durability.

so why a ESB from 14 cost you more or lees the same?

because bmw have set a price for others to match?

(or bmw are matching someone elses price)

I didn't know STA made a 700c fixed wheel frame as well that BMW themselves has copied and claim as their own.

I think the esb is expensive for what it is and so is the gangsta. Up against steel mtb's, bmx's and cruisers you've got a product that is pretty early in it's development (5 years) and doesn't particularly represent good vfm. http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-369750.html This thread seems split down the middle on them. I also think they are ugly in the way that late 90's bmx's were - fucking horrid.

I just don't understand what they offer over an identiti or a volume.

I think he was being disparaging rather than suggesting that BMW had directly copied it.

Ed, the copy is not from the 700c, they dont have/made one. but if you look the pics of the BMX one you can see that the Gangsta has lots of similarities

look the seattube cluster, one of the more distintive things from teh Gangsta ...., that frame is from 1998

Magic! Large, knockoff sta copy for mega dollar (ok it uses true temper tubing).

You think standard were the first people to use pierced top tubes?
And it's not a BMX so are you basing your 'knockoff sta copy' comment purely on a pierced tube?
It's different tubing, different geo, a completely different type of bike.

There have been hundreds of bikes with pierced tubes.

The 14 ESB as Rik mentioned is actually £58O and that's without having to take into account import costs etc, yet it's still a production line tig welded frame.
£5OO for a supertherm main tubed frame with forks that rides as nicely as the BMW is well worth it in my book.

I think he was being disparaging rather than suggesting that BMW had directly copied it.

TBH if it rides well and you like it, the company / image fair enough. I just think it's quite a price to swallow.

I'm interested to know how heavy it is? On the face of it the tube profile of the chain stays (quite thin) are a worry if your planning on 360'ing it. Also the wall thickness is reputably thinner than the bmx stuff.

Ed, the copy is not from the 700c, they dont have/made one. but if you look the pics of the BMX one you can see that the Gangsta has lots of similarities

look the seattube cluster, one of the more distintive things from teh Gangsta ...., that frame is from 1998

But BMW have used pierced top tubes right from their first frame. There are no other similarities between the two as they're different types of frame.

im not sure which ESB rik is talking about, but a new, raw TIG welded ESB is around 500 quid i think.

It's the proportions of the tubing, large dropouts, use of supatherm tubing (sta ox platinum) as well as pierced toptube that marked it out as a "knockoff" to me. Loads of companies have used pierced toptubes, that wasn't really my point.

im not sure which ESB rik is talking about, but a new, raw TIG welded ESB is around 500 quid i think.

they have more than one?
dunno, I was speaking the one everybosy in the shop rides... dunno really

Are you serious? Proportions of tubing, large dropouts...etc....BMW didn't start 5 years ago with the Gangsta...they've been building bikes with the same proportions and large dropouts and pierced tubes for about 15 years...the Gangsta is just using the same features they've always used because they know what works. Look at BMW's own bmx's and jump frames from back when they first started...The Gangstas main tubing came from their Jump frames.

im not sure which esb rik is talking about, but a new, raw tig welded esb is around 500 quid i think.

£58o

Ed, the copy is not from the 700c, they dont have/made one. but if you look the pics of the BMX one you can see that the Gangsta has lots of similarities

V

I think he was being disparaging rather than suggesting that BMW had directly copied it.

they have the most basic TIG welded frame that comes raw which theyve started making in the last 4 or 5 months. they come in small, medium and large.
it goes up from there, in price and customisation. fillet brazing, custom sizing, paint, extra gussets, anything you can think of really.

Look man they do look similar and they do have the same tubing. Your right it's not a copy but there has clearly been some influence down the road.