Which Chain? (Chains / Size / Width / Wear)

Wippermann 1Z1 went on my fixed today, new 1/8 chainset, new sprocket, plenty of tension, perfect chainline, and... it's permanently noisy. Looking at the sprocket while spinning the wheel it seems that the rollers don't fall into the sprocket teeth easily. They seem to hover a bit then drop in. This seems to be causing the noise and at some speeds it becomes a vibration. Is it because the chain is new? Do I need a better sprocket? It seems strange because a lot of people have said here that the 1Z1 is quiet.

Interesting, I had exactly the same problem.

All new drivetrain and the chain didn't sit properly: the links sat on top of the teeth of the ring until the one o'clock position, when the tension pulled them down.

At the rear, the links stayed on the sprocket until about one o'clock again, when they were noticeably pulled away.

I swapped the Surly sprocket for a no-name who's teeth had a more pointed profile and all was well.

I contacted Surly, who said it was a problem they occasionally encountered, but didn't explain exactly what that problem was.

I returned the sprocket to Charlie the Bike Monger, who tried a couple of different chains, with no problem at all.

I've got a 1Z1 on the Yokel-motion and although the problem isn't as pronounced, it's not silent (an audible "tinging") and close inspection shows something similar on a lesser scale.

In this case, the ring and sprocket are used, which leads me to think that there is some bedding-in required, before everything works nicely: I haven't put many miles on it yet.

the links sat on top of the teeth of the ring until the one o'clock position, when the tension pulled them down.

Thanks Scilly, that is a better way to describe it. It feels like something is grinding, metal-on-metal when I put some effort into the pedals which isn't a nice feeling. It's annoying. I'll try a different sprocket tomorrow.

I posted about it in CP:
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What sprocket and ring are you using?

It is a cheapo new SJS sprocket and it is even noisier on a new Planet X sprocket - both 1/8. I have a Shimano SS cog (even though it's 3/32) I'll try tomorrow. The chainring is Miche track but I think the friction seems to come from the sprocket.

I tried the 3/32 Shimano freewheel with the 1Z1 and the drivechain is still noisy, although admittedly not as much as track cog with 1Z1 chain. I also swapped the rear wheel out and the grinding rattle is still there, no difference. Finally, I decided to swap the 1Z1 chain for a Shimano Nexus NX10 chain and the rattle is still there but not as much as 1Z1. I am just wondering if I have a bad combination of sprockets and chain or perhaps expecting too much for it be silent. It is a carbon frame so maybe that amplifies the rattle?... There seems to be a lot of up/down movement when the chain is in motion, which is odd.

Is your chainring circular? I've always found Wippermann 1Z1 to be among the quietest chains, but too much chain tension will make anything noisy. If your chainring isn't round, maybe you have excessive chain tension at some point in the revolution.

FWIW, my stealth bike has TA ring, Phil or EAI silver sprocket and 1Z1 and no resonating cavities (skinny steel tubes, old fashioned metal wheels), it's completely silent. My race bike (hollow carbon disc wheel, big thin walled carbon tubes, Wippermann 1R8) sounds like a bag of spanners.

The carbon is definitely amplifying whatever is happening, but there is friction as the chain enters the sprocket. It sort of sits on the cog then drops in. I'm guessing this is causing the up and down 'wobble' as I turn the pedals hard. I'll have to swap out the chainring and see if it makes any difference. It is a Miche Xpress ring currently. On the plus side, the 1Z1 spring clip master link is very useful.

If you've swapped chains and sprockets and still have the same problem, I would check your chainline.

Had another play today. Investigated the chainline by adding spacers and swapping nuts around to shift my sprocket 2mm and 5mm across, no difference in sound. I did this video of the noise at a low speed. That is 1Z1 chain and Planet X sprocket. It sounds terrible. The teeth seem to sit dead centre in both sprocket and chainring with a 44mm chainline measured at both points. I'm assuming it is a just bad combination of sprocket, carbon frame and chain at this moment.

It does sounds as if the frame is having an affect: the noise is deeper and less metallic than what I was hearing.

Based on my own experience and yours, I can only suggest that some sprockets don't get on with the 1Z1:

• experiment with different set-ups until you find something that works with that chain;
  
• try a different chain;
  
• put some miles on your current set-up and see if there's an improvement.
  
  

I don't know what else to suggest, or what the cause actually is.

Thanks Scilly. I am going to drop by Mercian in the week for a different reason, I'll see if they can suggest anything. Aside from that I'll also try a few more sprockets too. I think, like you say, it will be a combination of the right sprocket and bedding-in.

I'd be interested to know how you get on: all things considered, I assumed it was "just my luck", but apparently there's more to it than that...

Wippermann 1Z1 went on my fixed today, new 1/8 chainset, new sprocket, plenty of tension, perfect chainline, and... it's permanently noisy. Looking at the sprocket while spinning the wheel it seems that the rollers don't fall into the sprocket teeth easily. They seem to hover a bit then drop in. This seems to be causing the noise and at some speeds it becomes a vibration.

Just came here to ask about chain noise/grinding as I have the exact same problem, also with a new Wipperman 1Z1. Previous KMC Z510HX was silent. Although my uneducated guess is not that the chain rollers aren't fitting into the cog easily, but the opposite. It looks like the cog is 'holding on' to the chain for too long as it is exiting.

Interesting, I had exactly the same problem.

All new drivetrain and the chain didn't sit properly: the links sat on top of the teeth of the ring until the one o'clock position, when the tension pulled them down.

At the rear, the links stayed on the sprocket until about one o'clock again, when they were noticeably pulled away.

I swapped the Surly sprocket for a no-name who's teeth had a more pointed profile and all was well.

This describes it perfectly. The cog I'm using is a Halo one, which also has a very square/wide profile, ie not pointy. The opposite of something like a Phil Wood.

It feels like something is grinding, metal-on-metal when I put some effort into the pedals which isn't a nice feeling. It's annoying.

Yup this is the worst bit for me, I could live with the noise, but I really don't like being able to feel it grinding.

Is your chainring circular? I've always found Wippermann 1Z1 to be among the quietest chains, but too much chain tension will make anything noisy. If your chainring isn't round, maybe you have excessive chain tension at some point in the revolution.

FWIW, my stealth bike has TA ring, Phil or EAI silver sprocket and 1Z1 and no resonating cavities (skinny steel tubes, old fashioned metal wheels), it's completely silent. My race bike (hollow carbon disc wheel, big thin walled carbon tubes, Wippermann 1R8) sounds like a bag of spanners.

I checked and it happens with everything from tight to super slack chain tension. On a Pompino, so fairly skinny steel tubes. But also, you can see there's an issue even if it were silent, the chain is not turning round smoothly.

Based on my own experience and yours, I can only suggest that some sprockets don't get on with the 1Z1:

• experiment with different set-ups until you find something that works with that chain;
  
• try a different chain;
  
• put some miles on your current set-up and see if there's an improvement.
  
  
  

I'm just going to ditch the 1Z1 and go back to a new KMC chain, as the old one performed great, and it's cheaper and easier than swapping cogs. It's clearly got a problem with cogs with teeth like these:

Which is a bit rubbish for a chain marketed as for track/fixed drivetrains, given a lot of track/fixed cogs look like that.

I was using a Surly, so it does look like the 1Z1 doesn't play nice with a square profile tooth.

I might get in touch with Wipperman and see what they say.

I found this with the 1Z1 too. Chain ring is a 49T velosolo one and rear sprocket was a condor 17t. Noisy, and could feel vibration through the frame. Tried different tensions, changed cogs to old ones, new ones etc. Always noisy.
Swapped back to KMC - seemingly any model and instant silence. Not a scientific test at all, but I'll stick to any cheap KMC from now on.

EDIT: Thinking about it, my chain line was acceptable but not perfect. I'm guessing the bushing in the wippermann chain is less tolerant to that – based on something Tester wrote a while ago.

While I'm here, going to try running a 3/32 setup on new bike - dura ace cranks and chainring and sprocket. Would I get the Wippermann 7R8 or 708? Just looks like a weight/strength difference.

Thanks lemonade and lowpug. Funny that, the Halo cog is very similar to the Planet X one:

Just a raw, cnc, thick track sprocket which doesn't get on with the 1Z1. Condor also being a cnc cog. I looked today that...

It looks like the cog is 'holding on' to the chain for too long as it is exiting.

yeah, this was happening at lower speed. It could all be to do with the bushings which are pretty heavy duty on the 1Z1. I have an Izumi chain on order so that may cure it. I also looked at a stainless steel one from KMC - the Z1X Inox because it is supposed to be very quiet. Will post results.

By the way, covering the 1Z1 in Finish Line wet lube today did help with the noise, but the vibration is still there so that is only a temporary fix.

The INOX KMC chain is very quiet. I ran one for ages but stupidly split it too short to use on a variety of gears. Get one if you can find for a reasonable price.

The vibration is coming from the "chain suck": as the chain pings off the teeth it vibrates.

Just throwing this out there .. 1Z1 is a 'rust-protected' chain. I wonder if the roller diameter is very slightly oversize as a result of the protection and once the protection is worn off the roller it will perform as normal.

On a 1/2" x 1/8" chain the nominal diameter should be 7.75mm.

Galvanising layer is a similar thickness to nickel plating or TiN coating, about 0.1% on the roller diameter. Given that roller chains work pretty well at 0.5% elongation, I can't see the plating being a problem even if the manufacturer completely forgot to allow for it in his tolerance calculations.

Would I get the Wippermann 7R8 or 708? Just looks like a weight/strength difference.

7R8 is the burly bushed chain with big pin overlap on the plates, making it very hard to break, either accidentally or with cheap chain tools, plus a spring clip master link. 708 is a bushingless dérailleur chain for 5-7 speed, but obviously works OK on 1-speed 3/32" bikes too. It has the horrid snap-on master link, which is reason enough to give it a wide berth. If you want a lightweight chain for 3/32", get the 808 instead.

And the Connex link on the 808 is no problem on a fixed drivetrain? Looking at the specs 308g seems very light. Strong enough I hope.

If you're worried, get the 7R8, but quicklinks are not inherently problematic for fixed, and the build quality of the 808 is the same as the 10-speed chains used by road sprinters putting out 1.5kW