New TfL's HGV's can't see you for s*** poster

It's something everybody should know, particularly cyclists; if you are going round a roundabout and have right of way over an HGV bearing down on the entry at 30mph, assume at all times that he is a massive cunt who is not going to brake and will quite happily run you down rather than spend and extra 50p on diesel that week.

This +1
I've been pretty close to being in accidents with wagons/HGVs while driving cars or bikes on roundabouts. Couple of massive "oh shit" times

Progress?

London to ban lorries with no side protection for cyclists

Anyone in the know able to comment on how effective these protective measures are?

They seem more to orientate around the alleged inevitability of contact, more than trying to prevent it (other than "larger mirrors")

Obviously anything is progress, but I think that the investment should be in teaching the drivers to use said mirrors more effectively

In the recent police efforts 60% or so of HGV's had a fault in there setup...

Compare the appalling record that the road freight industry has compared with buses and bus drivers similar training, but HGVs have been involved in 53 per cent of London cyclist deaths in the last four years, while accounting for only four per cent of traffic.

So, are cyclists taking more risks around lorries than buses, or does something else suggest itself?

The cyclists simply doing what people been telling them to do (ride in the gutter, undertake all the time, etc.), and then they suddenly get the blame.

Compare the appalling record that the road freight industry has compared with buses and bus drivers similar training, but HGVs have been involved in 53 per cent of London cyclist deaths in the last four years, while accounting for only four per cent of traffic.

So, are cyclists taking more risks around lorries than buses, or does something else suggest itself?

We've been here before; look at the height of the driver's eye line in an HGV compared with a bus. whether a bus driver is looking 2 yards ahead or 200, any cyclist inside that zone would have to be transparent to be missed. A lorry driver looking forward can easily have a score of cyclists in his zone of inattention. Same goes for every other direction; you don't have to be that close to a lorry to be under the radar.

Can't remember which article it was, but I noticed the other day that somebody else had finally noticed this.

While that is correct, I find that the London red bus drivers to be the most considerate drivers in London compared to other buses/coaches.

Do you even ride?

A lorry driver looking forward can easily have a score of cyclists in his zone of inattention.

Yet if I carried a huge parcel in the basket I don't have on the front of my bike and failed to notice a pedestrian and killed them the I reckon the cops would laugh at my "zone of inattention" excuse.

If you had a huge parcel big enough to obstruct your vision that badly, you would be deemed an idiot. HGV cockpits are up high due to the massive engine required and the equally huge wheels required to take the weight... which is why they have more restricted vision of what is immediately in-front and to the sides of them.

Both me and the lorry drivers are taking vehicles on the road that are dangerous to vulnerable road users. Mirrors that obviate blind spots can be bought for £30. If a driver doesn't check the area in front of his vehicle before setting off at a junction, in a city swarming with cyclists, and crushes and kills a cyclist, he doesn't even get charged with anything.

Of the 16 cyclist deaths in London in 2011, nine involved HGVs. Of these nine, seven were construction lorries.

The lower end of the industry is cut-throat sub-contracting (although the big firms
can be terrible too).

Exactly the point I've been making for years. The cab-over-engine layout was forced on the HGV industry by regulation, there's no reason why cab-forward couldn't be forced on them too.

It becomes even simpler if we look to a future where electricity replaces gears and shafts as the transmission system of choice.

Do you even read / write / think? You said Red Bus drivers are relatively good. I pointed out that this is hardly a compliment given that National Express are on the road.

I really do fail to see how anyone can have an issue with your statement or my statement in response to yours.

mdcc_tester said the main reason why fatalities is low with buses is the cab, but I pointed out it's highly likely to be the training as well.

Anyone in the know able to comment on how effective these protective measures are?
There's plenty of research showing that HGVs without side-guards are involved in a disproportionately large number of fatal collisions with cyclists, so yes, they do help and they should be fitted to all HGVs. However, they alone are not the solution. It's the same with sensors and mirrors. Drivers already have a hell of a lot of these in addition to signalling, steering, communicating with their sites, etc. Loads of visual and aural stimuli might sound good on paper, but it can actually make it harder to operate the vehicles and thus more dangerous for other road users.

I don't think anyone has yet managed to work out the optimum number of these measures per vehicle.

In my opinion, HGVs shouldn't even be on London roads, at least, definitely not in rush hours. It's not just cyclists who are intimidated by them after all. But while they are, education programs such as 'changing places' are a good way of alerting both cyclists and HGVs drivers to the experience faced by each. I still see far too many cyclists taking absurd risks around large vehicles though which is really depressing.

There also needs to be far, far more accountability so drivers and the companies they drive for are suitably banned and punished.

Indeed, especially when the vehicles leave the construction sites and no longer in their hand.

^ Jeez, what evidence/experience is your hierarchy of issues based on?

(1) The speed needed to do the route on time if you work for National Express leading to excessive speeds

I don't see much evidence of this in the centre of town where all the cyclists are, since pretty much everybody is speed restricted by congestion there anyway. NX drivers definitely have a casual disregard for the 40mph speed limit on the elevated section of the M4, though.

No evidence

Lolz, nothing new there.

I'd bring in strict liability for the larger vehicle in all accidents, only to be overturned with hard evidence. Basically make it prohibitively expensive to insure a motorised vehicle unless you have integrated cameras / black box / GPS speed / location tracking. Death penalty for people driving without insurance. Start with HGVs and bring it to other vehicles later.*** Automatic bans for all accidents whether you are at fault or not.*** (Obviously much shorter for the innocent party than the guilty)

Annual theory tests. 5 yearly driving tests.

Much tougher penalties for bosses of companies who make their drivers work too hard / fast, whether the drivers crash or not.

As much as anything the problem is that everyone is in a hurry, both the driver and the cyclist going up the inside.
Wow. I'm getting out of here.*

• No point arguing with crazy people. :/
  

sorry for image spamming but those are interesting designs.