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May be easier to use an analogue mixer like a small Mackie as a pre-amp, sort out gain etc, then send to line inputs of an interface? Or spend more on something like the Focusrite ISA 428, which I haz and it's very nice, but pricey.
good idea.
thats what i do.
run a mackie 1604vlz pro into the firwire 410.. gives you hands on control for starters and that warm mackie sound.you can get 1202 for real cheap.
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Thanks buddy.
I've been absorbing a lot of production wisdom of late and have made a few decisions about how I approach things. You're right it is all about vibe and atmosphere and capturing that is the challenge I've set myself.
It's hard with limited resources though the old chestnut of how to record a natural acoustic performance with suficient ambience separation to be able to edit later. To click or not etc. I'll get there. You're right i've just got to keep plugging away. tbh, it is early days for me as a hands on engineer/producer so I should be more patient with myself.
One problem is, that despite swearing I wouldn't do it, I have fallen foul of the temptation of over-process things. Add unnecessary compression etc. I realised this the other day when I decided to "un-do" a mix and deleted all the aux channels and removed all plugins and re-set the faders to start again. It immediately sounded better. Bit of an eye opener that.
Yeah it's so easily done. As long as you remember to do the a/b comparison and are prepared to listen honestly and make the hard decision if you have to (sometimes it's hard to wave goodbye to three hours of processing) then it can only sound better.
I've got access to a cool little space down in Stoke Newington if you ever need to use it - it's a great sounding room, very wet and resonant but I think it'd work with multiple mic positions.
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I forgot to list the digidesign 003. That has (x4) mic XLR/ TRS with an additional 4 trs/line inputs = 8 inputs in addition to the digital inputs. They can be had for not too much money on ebay in excellent condition.
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Just wanted to thank you lot for the suggestions and offers. Fest, I'll give you shout when I'm away from work.. although I’m recording again tonight so it might have to be tomorrow.
Had a really productive weekend at Lewisham Heights despite a scare after picking up my new monitors on Saturday when they started crackling and then the driver cut out. Turning off and back on seems to re-set them with no damage though so I assume there is some safety feature that’s protecting the speaker. A new power lead seems to have fixed that but I'm still pretty nervy about the issue returning. Anyway, when they're working they sound great. Treble is fabulously detailed. Am just purchasing some stands for them now to get them up at ear level.
Dug out the cheapo Behringer desk from it’s flight case under a sofa. It seems to have 4 x phantom powered XLR ins, 2 line outs and 2 "alternative outputs" which are sub-labelled 3-4 which make me think I may be able to get 4 distinct line outs from it. I think what I'll do then is look at some of the interfaces suggested up-thread, none of which are prohibitively expensive and have a go at using the desk for recording. If that works well enough I can keep an eye out for nicer desks on the bay without it being an urgency.
The weekend session was actually great. Had the singer and the accordion/trumpet player over and got a fair bit done. Recorded two (doubled) tracks of vocal harmonies on the Tom Waits cover I've been working on and the same on another original tune. Recorded accordion in my hallway which is a very resonant long narrow space with a slate-tiled floor and 5 doors off it. Used a condenser on the bass side of the accordion backed off a bit to pick up plenty of room round. Possibly a tad overkill with the natural reverb to be honest but it was fun nevertheless.
Trumpet we tried in there too but it was just too loud and reverberant. Set up in the main (dry) room but in the doorway facing towards the hall with only one door open. Managed to get a fantastic mariachi style double-tracked trumpet sound with a couple of lines picked out in minor thirds.
Had my friend and neighbour come down later with his bodhran which has a nice shure dynamic mic attached to the rim. That recorded fairly well although we failed to find a part that fit the song. Finished off the day with a quick 2 mic live recording of him singing an old Irish ballad that he wanted to capture "for posterity". He sounded great in the room so I just set up a small diaphragm condenser at the 12th fret and set up a large diaphragm a couple of feet back to get a bit of air round his high tenor voice.
I then sat up from 10pm till 2am editing and mixing another track. Had a total day off yesterday and didn’t even turn the computer on so I can’t say quite how that went as yet. I did go to bed happy though. Feel like I’m really to get a feel for what works on these songs.
Last word on mixing is that I’ve been using the space designer in Logic 9 on these most recent sessions. I’d previously eschewed it as the interface is so ugly and confusing but trying a few factory presets I was immediately struck at how they sat embedded in the mix in a way that the silver, gold and platinum verbs don’t. I’m already a bit in smit with the “vocal plate” and “really nice room” presets (tweaked to taste of course). Been using them in aux sends (one of each) and have been having warm fuzzy feelings about how they seem to pull the mix together. Impressed.
Some pics of Saturday’s shenanigans attached.
2 Attachments
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had a studio session Saturday with a guy I'm collaborating with ready for a live electronic performance next month where the plan is to build something from scratch - was pretty productive - I'm using Ableton Live and Push to control his Octratrack and Analogue 4 via MIDI, with a Leploop on the go also - I'm then playing Korg MS20 mini with my spare hand (not synched to anything, just going through my soundcard into Live as an external instrument so I can add effects etc.)
I'll post a clip later starts to get good at about 10 mins in
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Advice sought please!
Having not really recorded anything myself since I was a kid (using a cassette 4 track) I've decided this year to commit to learning how to use a DAW (gonna start off with Garageband with a view to moving on to Logic Pro).
I've recorded in studios plenty of times over the years but I haven't really picked a whole lot up so I'll essentially be starting from scratch - do any of you have any recommendations for particularly good tutorials?
I'm aware of Google, Youtube and typing but thought I'd check whether anyone has any recommendations.
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For which styles? For House/Electronic, Danny J Lewis is good, Music Production Tutorials on You Tube (and his own website/blog) - he is multi DAW disciplined , does a fair bit in Logic
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Cheers! All very exciting. I can see plenty of frustration ahead but considering the amount of technology that’s readily available to the amateur musician these days it’s just seeming increasingly silly of me to not get involved. I think diving straight in to trying to demo my own guitar stuff is a bit of a tall order as I’ll be struggling on two fronts and will inevitably fail to capture “the sound in my head”, if you’ll excuse the enormous cliché. So just starting with some electronic stuff seems to make the most sense to me at this stage. I’m not very well-versed in that kind of music but the stuff I do like tends to be quite stripped down anyway, so that’s convenient!
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^^ ouch.
Roland making a 'new' 808 and 303.
http://www.attackmagazine.com/news/roland-reissue-tb-303-tr-808/
Hopefully they'll be proper analogue machines. Though I suspect not.
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^ What happened?
^^Oh gawd I dunno. Bloke I bought 'em off assures me they were fine and in full working order and for better or for worse I do believe him. To be fair he has been in constant contact and is helping me get it sorted. Basically, they worked fine all day on Saturday but at some point towards the end of a long session one of them started to crackle then the driver cut out. I did have them up pretty loud at some points but not for long periods of time never anywhere near cranked, they have a gain control on each which is notched at 12 o’clock for 0db and I never turned this up past 1 o’clock and only then in conjunction with backing off the input volume. Most of the time they were off while we were tracking anyway. Plus the music I’m working on isn’t really speaker-threatening, although I suppose a loud plosive from an uncompressed vocal could conceivably have triggered something…
Anyway, turning the monitor off and on again seems to reset the drivers with no permanent damage but the crackling kept returning, even when no signal was present. I replaced the power leads, speaker leads, connections and tried different input sources… same deal. Yesterday I turned them on, played some fairly quiet acoustic music though them for half an hour then both drivers cut out. I reset them and then wandered off and left the mac to go to sleep. A couple of hours later there was a loud crackling and banging from next door. Something seriously not right there.
Soundtools who originally sold them to the guy I bought them off have been really good and said they’re covered by a 5 year warranty and have offered to provide the original buyer a duplicate invoice/proof of sale as he has lost his. He’s forwarding me that and which means I can get them repaired by a company called cimple solutions under warranty (assuming they don’t claim user error). Bit of a bugger but at least everyone involved has been helpful.
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At least you're covered. Nothing worse than being left ot fork out of your own pocket in these situations.
Re soundcards: I was eyeing this for a while but it doesn't make sense unless you have anyone coming over from the States:
Avid Digidesign Mbox 3 Pro 24-bit 192 kHz FireWire Audio MIDI Interface
There is no software but the box is sub £300! Worth looking IMO
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Oh, dooks, just as you get an opportunity to develop a reputation as a hard rocking destroyer of equipment, you're all calm and reasonable about it. :)
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We are the music makers - producers?
Posted by
@mattty
If you're on a mac why don't you opt for Firewire (instead of usb); surely the biggest mac advantage over pc- especially as you're using a 2009 machine?
edit**
Another option - a potentially expensive route would be expanding a focusrite with the optopre mk2 module that gives you x8 XLR inputs into the sound card:
Also the RM€:
But as others have said a stand alone hardware mixer would be the easiest. Spend as much as you can for a low noise floor.
If you like you can do some post work at mine as I've got an empirical labs fatso compressor?