In the news

BBC refusing to live-broadcast his mams courthouse-steps speech. Don't want those locals getting uppity now, do we.

/abysmal.

probably because of the families behaviour in the court up to then was less than appetising for live tv?

yeah.. anyone woulda thought their kid had been gunned down on the streets or something... what bastards!

Whether their behaviour is justified or not isn't the point.

Useless provocation that encourages a false conclusion.

Not really. Look at the Duggan case, a man dies after contact with the police and a number of completely dishonest statements are released by the police that place blame on the victim.

Even when the verdict is Unlawful Killing, as with Azelle Rodney and Chris Alder, nothing happens.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/05/unlawful-killing-met-marksman-azelle-rodney

Following his death, Alder’s sister Janet launched a long struggle for justice, one that continues to this day.

In 2000 a coroner’s jury returned a verdict of unlawful killing, and in 2002 five police officers went on trial accused of manslaughter and misconduct in public office. All were cleared on the orders of the judge.

An internal disciplinary inquiry by Humberside Police cleared the officers of any wrongdoing. In 2006, an Independent Police Complaints Commission report concluded that four of the officers present in the custody suite when Alder died were guilty of the "most serious neglect of duty", but the officers responsible walked free.

to be fair, i imagine the police have 'politely requested' them not to broadcast it. Plenty of xtra plod on the streets of tottenham tonight i'll wager.

Not really. Look at the Duggan case, a man dies after contact with the police and a number of completely dishonest statements are released by the police that place blame on the victim.

Even when the verdict is Unlawful Killing, as with Azelle Rodney and Chris Alder, nothing happens.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/05/unlawful-killing-met-marksman-azelle-rodney

No, really. What are we supposed to conclude from 842 deaths in 9 years? What do we gleam from that vague statistic, out of context and with no other statistics in mind for comparison? The answer in reality, is nothing, but it is intended to provoke a conclusion something like "oh shit, thats loads".

I'm not saying it isn't loads, i'm saying it might be, but I wouldn't know, since i can't actually base any kind of opinion on something as vague as that. I'd need to know much more detail. How many people had died in the 9 years prior? What did the deaths involve? How many were after violence? How many were self inflicted? How many violent encounters were the police involved in during that time? There are so many variables!

Many people will read the sentence, then not bother looking into it, which is exactly what the writer wanted.

Many people will read the sentence, then not bother looking into it, which is exactly what the writer wanted.

I provided a link with further details, not my fault if people don't click on it.

Difference between Mark Duggan case and Tony Martin?

also

827 people have died during or **following **police contact since 2004. No convicted officers since 1969.

what are the parameters for that? Is there a time scale? are the deaths linked? if so, who decides they are? everyone dies after police contact.

It's too vague to be of any use.

I provided a link with further details, not my fault if people don't click on it.

The article in the link refers to maybe 5 or 6 people. How is the statistic relevant?

also

what are the parameters for that? Is there a time scale? are the deaths linked? if so, who decides they are? everyone dies after police contact.

It's too vague to be of any use.

I imagine this means in hospital or from complications later. But as you say, we have no idea, neither does the writer, probably.

It's a shame.

Difference between Mark Duggan case and Tony Martin?

Didn't he shoot the unarmed robbers in the back with an unlicenced gun, then lie about how it happened?

Difference between Mark Duggan case and Tony Martin?

Mark Duggan could'nt TT for shit.

+1

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/page/deaths-custody-study
and an independent review into that report
http://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/national-statistician/ns-reports--reviews-and-guidance/national-statistician-s-reviews/national-statistician-s-review-of-ipcc-statistics.html

Bit more information here:

INQUEST uses the term deaths in custody as a shorthand to refer to all deaths in state detention including in prisons, secure training centres, in police custody, immigration detention centres and psychiatric detention and those deaths involving contact with state agents.

INQUEST’s casework and monitoring service has recorded over 4,500 deaths in prison and in police custody in England and Wales between 1990 and 2013. Many of these deaths have raised serious issues of negligence, systemic failures to care for the vulnerable, institutional violence, racism, inhumane treatment and abuse of human rights.

INQUEST has identified a number of particular concerns that arise from deaths occurring in police custody:

deaths which raise issues about standards of care such as deaths due to self injury, alleged drunkenness or drug intoxication, or poor medical care;
excessive use of force by police officers;
disproportionate numbers of deaths following the use of force against people from black and minority ethnicity (BME) communities;
fatal shootings by police officers.
INQUEST has been involved in supporting the families of a high number of people who have died in police custody or following contact with the police, and is continuing to monitor such deaths closely.

Related links:

Mental health deaths

Immigration deaths

Black and minority ethnic deaths

Statistics of deaths in police custody

Statistics of police shootings

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/police-deaths

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

Law unto themselves.

Bit more information here:

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/police-deaths

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

Thats more like it. doesn't see to confirm the first statistic though.

From the evidence reported in the media here it sounds like a ridiculous decision, deciding that he was killed lawfully but also concluding that he was not in possession of a gun. At the very least it's a serious error made by the police, and if you go by the witness who claims he was surrendering with a phone in his hand, at worst it sounds like an execution. I hope the truth is the former, but after Ian Tomlinson I don't think I'm alone in doubting whether police will ever be properly tried.

I'm by no means an ACAB type either, but I can really understand public outrage about this and the feelings of injustice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25363828

I don't think it kicked off because Mark Duggan was shot. I believe it was because of the shit way the Met handled the case. They never formally informed his family he had been killed. The family then out of protest went to the police station to report his murder. Then the police were even more shit, then it kicked off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25363828

The BBC Tweet earlier was strange:

Violent gangster, "clothing retailer", "beautiful" son - who was Mark #Duggan? Our profile: http://t.co/ppL0lKoXN0

— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) January 8, 2014
.@BBCNews Why put everything in quotes besides violent gangster? If I were cynical I'd say it revealed the (racist) thinking behind this.

— Gabriel (@tofuturehumans) January 8, 2014

The BBC Tweet earlier was strange:

Violent gangster, "clothing retailer", "beautiful" son - who was Mark #Duggan? Our profile: http://t.co/ppL0lKoXN0

— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) January 8, 2014
.@BBCNews Why put everything in quotes besides violent gangster? If I were cynical I'd say it revealed the (racist) thinking behind this.

— Gabriel (@tofuturehumans) January 8, 2014

Clothing retailers and beautiful sons can be white and make excellent " local businessmen " .

Given that yesterday some of my wife's family had their house burgled at gunpoint by a gang who also hit their 8 yr old son, I am less keen on the civil rights of those with illegal weapons in their possession than I used to be.

I can see how much that would accomplish. Because civil rights are the things which prevent cops from arresting criminals and getting illegal guns off the street.

Btw, where was this? Gun-point home invasion/assault on a child sounds like a fucking terrible experience that I'd wish on no one.