Blood on the streets

Charlie, Paris was discussed earlier in this thread, from here:

https://www.lfgss.com/post3938205.html

And another thing. Is there any evidence that the driver was at fault for any of these 6 tragic collisions? If not then in the absence of evidence one way or another should we attribute blame 50/50, should we just blame the driver because they are the ones with the bigger vehicle, or should we just assume that collisions are one of those things that just happens?

I see the troll is hungry tonight, poor thing.
Only a fool would attempt to attribute blame with scant evidence available. What can be considered is what might be done to reduce the risk of further deaths.
As the danger and harm is proportionate to the weight and speed of the vehicles involved it makes sense that those bring the heaviest and fastest vehicles onto the streets have the greatest opportunity to reduce the risk to everyone else.

Gilligan says there have been 17 cyclist fatalities in Paris.

And another thing. Is there any evidence that the driver was at fault for any of these 6 tragic collisions? If not then in the absence of evidence one way or another should we attribute blame 50/50, should we just blame the driver because they are the ones with the bigger vehicle, or should we just assume that collisions are one of those things that just happens?

Get fucked, Jeez. This is low, even for you, you tedious troll.

Charlie, Paris was discussed earlier in this thread, from here:

http://www.lfgss.com/post3938205.html
--- oops search fail. Had anyone mentioned the 14 month fatality free period in Central London from Feb last year?

Well 3M are major players in the technology and hold a lot of patents about it...

'With $30 billion in sales, 3M employs 88,000 people worldwide and produces more than 55,000 products, including: adhesives, abrasives, laminates, passive fire protection, dental products, electronic materials, medical products, car-care products (sun films, polish, wax, car shampoo, treatment for the exterior, interior and the under chassis rust protection), electronic circuits, and optical films.'

I thought they made the reflective stuff rather than the day glo yellow "high viz"? Admittedly a lot of things contain both, but they're two different safety approaches...

--- oops search fail. Had anyone mentioned the 14 month fatality free period in Central London from Feb last year?

Well, why would we, since we were discussing Paris? ;)

It's a good point.

The message 'don't go down the left side of a high-sided vehicle' doesn't have anything to do with victim-blaming and everything to do with saving lives or preventing serious injury, as people will do this.

It's key to ensure that this specific and necessary message doesn't become diluted and closely associated with implicitly victim-blaming nonsense such as that espoused by the Mayor as a diversionary tactic.

I can promise you I am not trolling.

This bit is a particular joy

"If I hadn’t been fully concentrating I could have knocked one or both of them off their bikes."

Because full concentration is an optional extra, a bonus if you will, when driving a car in the city.

Nicked that and posted it there, should have asked first, sorry!

I bet you the headphone ban will come because it's easier than putting a parital ban on HGV and yet will put Boris in a positive light.

I heard on VERY GOOD authority that the woman that died in Victoria had over taken and cyclist that held back from under taking a HGV that already had it's left indicator on. He shouted at her but she could hear him......Guess why?

I wouldn't mind but it seems some people never look back at the best of times but stick the headphones on and they are truly floating on their Dre sponsored magic cloud of beatz.

I've personally had folk drift and cut in front of me numerous times whom I've shouted to but couldn't hear me either so it's not hard to see why the potential ban. (I'm sure they're banned in barcelona.) And like many of you have said, it's the one of the easiest things to do at a time when something has to be seen to be done and it has political mass appeal. To use that football vernacular: it's a near post tap in.

The driver of the HGV was driving in a city where there are thousands of cyclists on the roads. If what you say is true the cyclist made a mistake. The penalty shouldn't be death.

Indeed I have. I did discuss with him how to ride past sideroads but he wasn't really listening
It may be timely to do this again
I am also waiting for Gilligan to confirm his session date

Does he even crank? I mean properly, not just when there are journos around for photo ops?

#Gilligan's gut

Does anyone know the estimated numbers on cyclist injuries and near misses? I am thinking that the unreported incidents and non-fatal accidents are as important to talk about than deaths.

Has this number risen? Surely with an increase in cycling in London this would be a pretty high figure. I imagine A & E's are seeing cyclists hobbling in for numerous injuries?

Separately on ASL, I read somewhere that police are reluctant to push ASL infringements because the punishment seems rather harsh. Maybe a review of offences needs review. Unhelpful to have fines/laws that don't fit the crime...

I've a better idea: DITCH ALL ASLs. They cause more problems than they solve. Just watch the rush hour scramble among cyclists in and out of them. If they're full, cyclists will still push to get into them when there is no space. They still enter from the left irrespective of what may be taking the next left turn.
You cannot ticket motor vehicles in them that get caught on a red. Then you see indignant cyclist huffing and puffing and in turn encroach on the limited pedestrian space and you're left with chaos.

Get rid

The biggest issues is that it'll create a backlash with many cyclists claiming it's a bad move, and give the illusion that cyclist have less right than originally thought by drivers.

It's not just cyclists causing challenges for HGV drivers. Watch the below YouTube link - cars, pedestrians, other HGVs...
HGV driving near-misses in london....! - YouTube

All I can see from that video that collision are almost entirely avoidable with a properly trained driver.

But cyclists are the easiest to complain about.

I can see something else from it, and it's that if all those dipshits in all those cars are so blind that they can't spot a GIGANTIC FUCKING HGV BEARING DOWN ON THEM, are they really any more likely to see some comparatively tiny cyclist even if they're wearing the entire hi-vis section of their local Evans outlet?

Gilligan says there have been 17 cyclist fatalities in Paris.

That's disingenuous. 17 in Ile de France, which is a much bigger area than Greater London.

Kieron has the dope.

http://buffalobillbikeblog.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/one-year-on-a-post-about-lorries-cyclists-and-paris-deja-vu/

The driver of the HGV was driving in a city where there are thousands of cyclists on the roads. If what you say is true the cyclist made a mistake. The penalty shouldn't be death.

Fucking hell, of course not* but we are as soft and delicate as peds and those errors are far more costly for us and our loved ones. How long can we sit here and point the finger of blame at the things everyone else needs to do to make things better (rightly so) but not get aspects of our own house in order? I understand why cycle organisations do not point out these common potential failings in public but the fluro elephant in the room are the hoards of cyclists that ride in ignorance with little awareness for their own safety or that of others around them, yet have egos so big they will not entertain the idea of getting their road craft up to scratch for FREE.

We've seen little meaningful action from those at the top and from those paid to enforce better conditions. We read daily lies and invective from (the majority of) those that make money from the discussion of cycling in radio, and print. And pathological hatred from fellow human beings who happen to use a different form of transport. The die is cast. Status quo or get skilled up?

The nine years olds I'm working with have a better understanding of road use than at least 60% of those I see during rush hour. That can't be right. Yet point any of this out and you're greeted with the flip of the bird or told to fuck right off (even as another cyclist). All I'm asking is that we make the best cyclists of ourselves as we can because no one else seemingly gives a damn. Don't believe me, read the distasteful comment sections.

• someone has lost a daughter, a friend, a lover and we have all lost a young doctor.
  

I've a better idea: DITCH ALL ASLs. They cause more problems than they solve. Just watch the rush hour scramble among cyclists in and out of them. If they're full, cyclists will still push to get into them when there is no space. They still enter from the left irrespective of what may be taking the next left turn.
You cannot ticket motor vehicles in them that get caught on a red. Then you see indignant cyclist huffing and puffing and in turn encroach on the limited pedestrian space and you're left with chaos.

Get rid

This ^
I used to feel indignation when I experienced the violation of the ASL rules but have since realised that this indignation is similar to the irrational RLJ/Pavement/all cyclists do it etc 'argument'.
Its flaunting of the 'rules' but relatively unimportant.

ASLs need to be bigger, enough to get a critical mass of riders ahead percolating through the cars past the drivers and the riders should stick together as a bunch and stay bunched as they move off. Taking whole lanes

That would require the nodderton have the skills for a bunch ride. I would rather give people I don't know a wide birth than be hemmed in by them.

Cooperation between riders and drivers is needed. That's what cycle trainers teach.
Competition on the commute between modes and between people using the same mode is the problem.

DITCH ALL ASLs and ALL CYCLE 'LANES'