Offered: beware, fake colnagos sold in london

i heard they started clearcoating 'originals' in the factory as a counter measure

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i'd a probably tried to steal a lock of his hair

Hi All,

I know this is a rather "contentious" thread to make a first post in, but I have known Niall at Retrospective for a few years (mainly due to scooters but now cycles too) and was in his shop last week when this discussion came up and he pointed out the thread to me.

He said he had been banned in the past but he did want to try to formally respond. I offered to post his reply as I know a few of you also know him and may be interested in what he had to say.

I trust this is OK and if not I trust you will not be backwards in letting me know!

============================================

Hi LFGSS Members,

I am Niall McCart, the founder and owner of Retrospective Cycles and the buyer of all the cycles you see for sale on there. Firstly, thank you to those of you who have pointed this thread out to me in order to give me a chance to review the information and respond. I was certainly shocked and surprised (and a little confused too) by some of what I read.

As some of you have pointed out, I regularly visit Italy to buy vintage cycles that I find through a network of suppliers and collectors that I have built up over the past 15 or so years of buying cycles and scooters. I have always had a particular interest in Colnago’s and was very concerned to read the accusations being made on here without anyone ever raising the issue with me directly. For the record, I have never had a single customer come back to me to claim that their bike was anything other than 100% genuine or exactly as described. You can see from the very close up and detailed photographs I supply on my website, even for a £150 bike, I am not trying to hide anything at all from customers and they are fully able to see the quality of workmanship etc. on every bike I sell.

Also, if I have a bike that I know or suspect is of questionable provenance I will always point out my suspicions and state what I believe to be the truth about the bike (see http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/zeus-2000-52.5cms/ as an example of what is still a nice bike but perhaps not quite what it is labelled as). There are plenty of lovely bikes which have been dressed up to be something slightly different and a bit unique – nothing wrong with riding one of those if that’s what you like/want/can afford.

I can categorically state that I have NEVER knowingly bought or sold a “fake” bike and would never want to do so. I also suspect the word “fake” is being a bit mis-used in this discussion. A Colnago Sport is just a lower level Colnago as most of you appreciate – they are not “fakes”. If they ARE fakes, why would anyone be stupid enough to make a fake of an entry level bike – now that I do not really follow.

As much as this is a business, reputation and customer service always comes first and selling fake bikes is simply a sure fire way to destroy a reputation that has to be carefully built on trust with customers. As you know from the LFGSS forum, the community is small and well informed and it takes nothing other than one bad deal to destroy years of hard work and honesty. Clearly, there are collectors, owners and experts who have researched some areas more than anyone else (including myself) and, like all of you, I am happy to learn from them if it is going to help my customers and my business. However, there is also a lot of mis-information online and taking a single person’s view is also a quick way to spread misleading and damaging rumours.

I am intending on carrying out investigations into each of the apparently fake bikes mentioned in this thread and will remove/edit their descriptions if appropriate.

If any LFGSS members believe they have previously bought a fake from me, then please get in direct contact through my website and include some photographs and information as to why you think the bike may be a “fake” and I will then be happy to discuss with you further and investigate with my suppliers during my current trip to Italy (I am there right now and back in about a week).

I hope this has re-assured some of you as to my intentions when selling cycles and thank you to those of you who have supported me in these postings.

Regards,

Niall McCart

Retrospective Cycles

www.retrospectivecycles.com

Fake is a strong word.
But if something is not what it appears, and given my limited vocabulary, that's the word I thought suitable, apologies if it offended.

Regarding posting here, some could view it as cowardly, fair enough.
As a minor forum member, a passionate rider and someone who has a couple of Colnagos, eg, a buyer, I stuck it here.
No personal malice or damage to reputations is intended, merely to highlight the uncertainty in that particular model.
I fail to see why direct contact would have been better.
I don't live in London sadly, if I did, I would have probably just ridden over to the shop.
with regards to those 4 "Colnagos" listed
I sometimes get ask to give appraisals on Colnagos (believe it or no) , and here's an example of one I got asked about last week

notice the similar forks, the ones debated have similar, but look at the lugg cut out

not the heart, but clover attempts, too much stalk, I suggested possibly a colner
I also mentioned and highlighted the headtube lugg
here's one Colnago Sport, listed on ebay.it
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Bicycle-Frame-Colnago-Sport-55-5cm-/300908362490?pt=Biciclette&hash=item460f893afa
the headtube has the flourishes more familiar to mainstream Colnagos


and , no rear stay braze on

we can see at least 4 different frames purporting to be Colnago Sports
Historically, I've never seen a catalog with Colnago sports, the one Greg Softly has is endowed with clovers in the headtube lugging, and has similar fork crowns, though with more shape.

they are not Colnagos. just have a look at the lugs and build quality.

look, no flourish

mmm
there was a discussion here a while ago regarding tt cable guide braze ons, in the 70''s to 80's all in catalogs had two, but according to the excellent table on classic rendezvous, a third could be added at the factory at individual's behest.
never touched a Colnago roadbike with mudguard braze ons

one's offered have seat stay caps,

http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/cache/colnago-sport-53.5cms/colnagosport53.5cms3497_820.jpg

here's one without
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eN5Lt7JdQQA/TaStPNGMjeI/AAAAAAAABQE/WRni08usSGI/s1600/DSC_3416.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HII_gq7YQqU/TaStOfmD5II/AAAAAAAABP0/UDKQon8OJEw/s1600/DSC_3425.jpg
early Colnagos with tt clamps had hollow stays , Ray Dobbinsssss'
http://www.raydobbins.com/pantografata/finished/finished
capped stays only on Colnagos only emerged in the late '70s.
this one offered has tt clamps and flat capped stays,listed as Colnago Blue, not "lower level" Colnago Sport
no clover

this one is listed as colnago super, not the "lower level" model ,the Colnago Sport
http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/colnago-super-50cms/

http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/cache/colnago-super-50cms/colnagosuper50cms3597_820.jpg
look, no clover

never seen a Super with gipemme dropouts, though web trawl shows numerous ''Sport" models share this

this is a Colnago Super


the one listed as a Colnago Super clearly isn't
what do you call a Colango Super that isn't?
Faux?

I think the points highlighted are valid, feel free to pm me

Cheers

I'd be interested in the opinions of my peers also

I want to jump in because I feel Saarf is a little out on his own here. I agree with most of what Saarf has concluded. This has been an uncomfortable thread because it draws attention to something that we all know goes on. The reality is that the bikes in question at Retrospective are ordinary and unremarkable by any measure yet they are not for sale for small change. Their prices are higher than they should be purely because they have Colnago decals on them. I and many others who look at those pics know that those frames are not Colnagos -- Sports or other obscure 'entry level' mythical creations -- yet an unsuspecting and less well infomed buyer will have heard only of the Colnago brand. That's really what this comes down to -- misrepresentation -- and that is, unfortunately, deliberate. If you're confident enough to take the money then you should be confident in your knowledge of what you are selling. I also don't buy the bleeding heart, pity-me response. I'm sure Retrospective have many delighted customers. But these bikes should not trade on the Colnago brand association. That's all there is to it. Kudos to Saarf for pointing it out.

Sports or other obscure 'entry level' mythical creations .

many thanks for your support squire,
I'd like to extrapolate the mythical creations comment as regard to there ever actually being a real Colnago authorised Sport Model
One theory
A friend's wife works for a 'designer' Italian brand, in quite significant context
she told me the factory's produce identical items in a collection for the grey market.
Could the sports be back door models?
Doubtful given the inconsistency in things like lugging
As I said , I've found no evidence online in catalog type pictures, in the 84 catalog, bottom of line was Colnago Eco and or Saronni
the ''sports" appears to be from the early to late 70's, catalogs were not big in this era, on the evidence found online, no indication of a Sports model.
therefore, could the Sport be a mythical creature indeed?

A further look into the archives section shows some models are actual Colnago Supers.
As someone who admits to having an interest in Colnagos, surely the vendor would have noticed the differences?

listed and sold as colnago blue

http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/archive/colnago-blue-54cms/
listed and sold as colnago

sold as colnago

http://www.retrospectivecycles.com/archive/colnago-red-50cms/

+1

Bottom line is these things are on his website and the few (quite obvious) issues Saarf has raised are enough suggest that Niall isn't very retrospective at all about vetting his stock. If anyone is dealing in anything and charging a premium they should know what they're selling, if not they leave themselves open for criticism.

I mean mudguard braze ons. Come on. Plus the fucking decals on the red one are fucking squint. If you deal in these things even casually you would know what you're looking at-the whole 'Colnago 'Sport'' caveat falls flat very quickly when there's so little there other than a decal.

Finally, its a bit rich sending an email via a third party after you got banned for taking the piss on classifieds first time around because someone that actually contributes to the community here has highlighted a very fair point about some of the bikes being sold through you.

#mytuppence

Saarf,

No need to be on the defence... all that you write is correct and sure many members appreciate the fact that you are making things clear of what an authentic Colnago looks like compared to a fake/imitation. These frames fetch top price and your detailed pics verify what to look out for!

With you all the way!

Abraço!

cc

Fake is a strong word.
But if something is not what it appears, and given my limited vocabulary, that's the word I thought suitable, apologies if it offended.

Regarding posting here, some could view it as cowardly, fair enough.
As a minor forum member, a passionate rider and someone who has a couple of Colnagos, eg, a buyer, I stuck it here.
No personal malice or damage to reputations is intended, merely to highlight the uncertainty in that particular model.
I fail to see why direct contact would have been better.
I don't live in London sadly, if I did, I would have probably just ridden over to the shop.
with regards to those 4 "Colnagos" listed
I sometimes get ask to give appraisals on Colnagos (believe it or no) , and here's an example of one I got asked about last week

notice the similar forks, the ones debated have similar, but look at the lugg cut out

not the heart, but clover attempts, too much stalk, I suggested possibly a colner
I also mentioned and highlighted the headtube lugg
here's one Colnago Sport, listed on ebay.it
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Bicycle-Frame-Colnago-Sport-55-5cm-/300908362490?pt=Biciclette&hash=item460f893afa
the headtube has the flourishes more familiar to mainstream Colnagos


and , no rear stay braze on

we can see at least 4 different frames purporting to be Colnago Sports
Historically, I've never seen a catalog with Colnago sports, the one Greg Softly has is endowed with clovers in the headtube lugging, and has similar fork crowns, though with more shape.

Can someone identify this, please?

yL-BSEfqLb3Uw~~60_12.JPG)

+2

I think it has all been said. Well done Saarf, you know your nags. The bikes in question are way over priced in relation to quality and possibly dubious heritage. We are a community and should share info about our favorite mode of transport. I have learnt a lot reading this thread, hopefully Retrospective cycles will have also......knowledge is power.

Is that the Rinapello that Moser broke the hour record on?

No, that's the very rare Colnago Sprout

+2

.knowledge SHARED is power.

)