Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

294, assuming your calculations are correct

Round down.

I've always had problems with factory radial spoked front wheels, even when I've been at my lightest when racing. The ones I've had (Mavic Aksium, Fulcrum 5, Miche Pistard) all shed spokes fairly regularly - never had problems with their rear equivalents.

I'd like to try to salvage the Miche Pistards until I build up some hand builts. They're 20 hole hubs/rims, would I gain any strength in re-building as two cross, if possible ?

Where/how spokes were the spokes breaking?

Nipple vs. hub = potentially different diagnosis and solution

Radial lacing gives a very stiff wheel and it's pretty hard to break a front wheel spoke as loads are all so much less than a rear, all I can think is they are losing spoke tension somehow and gradually dying due to fatigue as they load/unload excessively.

294, assuming your calculations are correct

they are, i just checked on edd, if the wheelse are 32h and lacing pattern is 3x

hubs, remember that these are measured under the assumption of use with 14mm nipples, (i've got some silver brass dt swiss ones to sell if you need?)

also you decided on spokes yet?

Where/how spokes were the spokes breaking?

Nipple vs. hub = potentially different diagnosis and solution

Radial lacing gives a very stiff wheel and it's pretty hard to break a front wheel spoke as loads are all so much less than a rear, all I can think is they are losing spoke tension somehow and gradually dying due to fatigue as they load/unload excessively.

The current broken spoke on the Miche Pistard is at the hub, can't remember for the others. Took it for someone to look at yesterday, and they pointed out the spokes had quite a large elbow coming out from the hub. Not sure if this would have anything to do with it ? Going to try it as 2x and see how it goes.

I've measured the 610mm ERD for Open Sports myself and it's the value that I use for my own calculations and builds. Works fine and I get decent thread contact when I reach the final tension. But rims can vary between factory runs.

Once I had to do a rim swap with a set of wheels that had A319 rims. The new rims were supplied and at first I thought it would be a no brainer. Purely for academic (nerdy wheelbuilder) reasons I measured the ERD of the new rims and there was 1-2mm difference all the way round. The previous wheel builder had gone long on the spoke length i.e. had rounded up rather than down so there was a lot of thread poking through. No spoke cutting tool so had to get new spokes.

Therefore, if possible always measure. Don't rely on manufacturer specs or even your previously measured values. You can get away with a couple of mm with hubs specs but rim ERD values can vary even for the same model of rim. A couple of old spokes and a tape measure is all you need.

I'm planing to do a set of road wheels and need opinions/advise on patternes.
I'm getting shallow carbon rims, hope pro 3, stainless butted spokes and brass nipples. 28h front and rear.

I'm not a fan of radial lacing with that many spokes so I was thinking 1x or 2x up front. with 1x I could do all spokes elbow out to get the most out of the flange spacing.

as for the rear, I've been reading about mixed patterns. some say radial nds and 2x or 3x ds while others swear to the other way round. any opinions on that?
I could do the same 1x, elbow out trick on the rear too. that would make most sense on the ds to get a little bit less dish and more even tension.
what would be the logic pattern for the nds then? 2x?
thanks
also; what would look more elegant? ;)

I'd honestly just go 2x throughout.

but where's the fun in that?

Fair point.

I have 1x on the non drive side of my road wheels. Heads in for the same reason you give.

I think radial looks OK for 28 spokes. No more though. But 1x looks nice too.

I'm not sure about a 2x DS, 1x NDS. I have 3x DS, 1x NDS. But I also have 16 spokes DS, and only 8 spokes NDS. So its amazingly balanced. Chuck the figures into a tension calculator and see what comes up most even.

Anyone built these up recently?
I've inadvertently gone and ordered a fiddy mm and an 82 mm to build up on track hubs because it's about time I started using equipment that belongs to me.

My question is: can you just use normal nipples in the usual way, or do you need nipple washers/special nips?

want to order a 24h 82mm myself soon, its not clear if they take internal nipples. it also says in the description that the rims have lazer engraved logos under the clear coat but thats not shown in tghe photos. their track wheels built with 50/82mm 24h rims use internal nipples.

Had a conversation with Planet X within the last few months.

The 50mm rims required internal/inverted nipples.

The screwdriver slots of normal nipples when inverted will grind on the rims when tensioned.

You can buy nipples without slots or use washers.

Thanks D.
Anyone know where to source internal nipples? I'm drawing only expensive eBay stuff ATM

Sapim and DT hex nipples should work nicely upside down, would still need washers but there's no screwdriver slot to spoil your fun.

Sapim make proper inverted nipples but their distribution sucks balls; would still be worth asking a shop to source you a box of 100 before paying nearly $1 each for nips!

Thanks D.
Anyone know where to source internal nipples? I'm drawing only expensive eBay stuff ATM

http://www.bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Nipples%20and%20Washers.asp

Awesome service. Use them all the time.
You can get internal washers too, which help the build up but arent totally nessercary.

Super, thanks lads.

Need opinions people, lacing some novatecs to tb14's, 36h, 3x, recommended spoke length with 16mm nipples (what i happen to have) is 287 and 287.5

Would i be able to get away with 284 spokes?

don't think so, I'm afraid.
I'd never go more than 1.5 mm oversize.

yeah, that's what i was thinking :( got the 284's already though, of to buy more spokes i go! pfftttt

have you seen if they'll fit with 2x pattern?

Will do tomorrow morning, something tells me I would have tried that but I don't think I have. Hmmmm

internal nipples at CRC here http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/pro-lite-intergrated-nipple/rp-prod49471

anyone know the ERD of those Deadly Discs 50mm rims? also its just a standard v shape, 20mm wide? internal width?