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Recognised sociological phenomenon.

Come now.

It is, though, that's the thing.

All he's doing is referring to a recognised sociological phenomenon.

Ok, yes it is, and yes he is recognising it, but that is not all he is doing. Can you accept that? Whether you can or not I think this conversation is at a bit of a dead end.

Recognised sociological phenomenon.

A recognised social phenomenon, i.e. something that appears in society, not something that appears in the science of studying society, sociology. As you were. :)

http://road.cc/content/news/89779-daisy-abela-follows-emma-ways-footsteps-tweets-intentional-collision-cyclist

WAC

... I haven't studied crash stats in Denmark yet (need to learn a bit of Danish first).....

http://www.sikkertrafik.dk/Raad-og-viden/Paa-cykel/Undersoegelser-og-statistik-om-cykelulykker.aspx
First graph = number of cyclists killed
Second graph = number of cyclists seriously injured
Elsewhere on the web I found some indication that only serious accidents make it to the statistics.

Also, this report on Lorry vs. Cyclist seems to be a good read. It is summarised in English on page 78 and onwards:
http://www.hvu.dk/SiteCollectionDocuments/HVUrapp04_Hoejresving.pdf
The way I read this report the Danes are no closer finding a solution to this problem in terms of rethinking road layout than we are in the UK. Mirrors and driver attention seems to be the main issues at stake as far as I can see from the report.

Which leads me to repeat what I have ranted on here before; that arguing for DK/NL road layouts in the UK as a measure to prevent accidents is a Guardian-reader's myth. Accidents are reduced if the mindset of drivers change. What Hippy wrote above essentially.

Which leads me to repeat what I have ranted on here before; that arguing for DK/NL road layouts in the UK as a measure to prevent accidents is a Guardian-reader's myth. Accidents are reduced if the mindset of drivers change. What Hippy wrote above essentially.

I'd say that they are reduced if everybody's mindsets change. There are lots of bike riders whose attitudes are off, even if they don't cause as much road danger. Traffic is a social environment and people need to understand that better. Also, the increase in crashes in the Netherlands comes from crashes not involving motor vehicles, i.e. unforced falls, collisions between riders, and collisions between cyclists and pedestrians. The number of incidents involving cyclists and motor vehicles didn't change very much in that time, around 2,000pa in the early 90s to 1,500pa in the 00ies. These are still lower crash rates than in the UK, but the tendency is in the wrong direction.

I ride 100+ miles a week. I follow the highway code, am courteous to other road users. I wear cycle specific clothing, it keeps me cool, and keeps my saddle sores at bay. Most of the worst cycling I see is by in experienced cyclists, often in what kahn describes as 'normal' clothing.

With this comment, Kahn is promoting a false prejudice based on appearance. He is saying that people who look like me are assholes. He is also saying that it is impossible to get a work-out from your commute, without riding agressively. I climb Gipsy hill every night, sometimes twice. I sprint down the longer open stretches of the old kent road. I manage to do this without antagonising anyone.

Kahn is a twat should speak to some cyclists before pronouncing on them.

So every cyclist should change into the clothes that you find appropriate for your atypically high cycling distance and speed, every time they hop on their bike to pop to the shops?

And anyone that dares to suggest that dressing like a normal person while engaging in a normal activity might help you be viewed as a normal person doing a normal activity is a twat?

If that's really what you believe then maybe he's right about the asshole thing.

That's not what he's saying though, is it?

Isn't he?

There are a lot of people donning the 'special clothes' to do 3 mile commutes who don't need to. Helmets and Hi Viz crap reinforce the idea that cyclists are doing something dangerous that has no place on the roads. Normal clothes reinforce the idea that cycling is a normal mode of transport that belongs there. Pointing this out is apparently being a "twat"

I'm fairly sure what he was saying is that he doesn't want to be told what he "should" or more specifically "should not" wear...

Isn't he?
There are a lot of people donning the 'special clothes' to do 3 mile commutes who don't need to. Helmets and Hi Viz crap reinforce the idea that cyclists are doing something dangerous that has no place on the roads. Normal clothes reinforce the idea that cycling is a normal mode of transport that belongs there. Pointing this out is apparently being a "twat"

Who decides they "don't need to"?

That's horseshit. If they feel more comfortable in lycra for a 3mi ride, so be it. If they feel more comfortable in high viz so be it.

I don't like suits but I don't tell people to stop wearing them because they are on the Tube and suits are stupid and unnecessary in 40 degree heat.

I'm fairly sure what he was saying is that he doesn't want to be told what he "should" or more specifically "should not" wear...

This.

Hippy *should *wear more vertical stripes and more black.

And maybe spanx...

What's a spanx?

Like you don't know.

I'm worried about googling it.

Hippy *should *wear more vertical stripes

He really shouldn't http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/sep/12/slimming.stripes

Indy interview with Reginald D Hunter,

I'm a huge Star Trek fan I'm not a Trekky, I'm just a fan of the philosophy of the show. There's a Christian angle and a touch of Buddhist philosophy, too. One of the principles is about duty and collectivism: saying that we will answer distress signals even from our enemies. And being kind to our enemies is what Martin Luther King [Jr] talked about.

:-)

There are a lot of people donning the 'special clothes' to do 3 mile commutes who don't need to.

How do we know how far they have ridden? Are they being followed? How many is 'a lot?'

I have my sources, yes, and 4.

possibly the other 1983 williams too

Hi BlueQuinn. I dont have a problem with what anyone decides to wear on a bike. I'm not sure what made you think this, but I apologise if you think I came across as an 'asshole'. I have explained above why I found the comments of chan antagonising.

I dont like the idea that a group of people should have to change their appearance to appease the predjudices of others. The predjudices may be based on real experiences, eg people in Lycra being agressive, but that does not mean they are true. My point about people in normal clothes also being bad cyclists was intended to illustrate this, not to imply that I have any problem with what they choose to wear.

James, our name is legion for we are many.

They have arrested Rolf Harris again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23581847